How about another tune . . .

I hate you, you hate me,
We’re a disfunctional family.
Then a shot rang out and Barney hit the floor,
No more freaking dinosaur.

Here is my entry for random link of the day.

What goes “click click, Is that it?, click click, Is that it?”

Steveie Wonder doing a rubik’s cube

MBirch is keeping the Mrs. and I in a constant state of laughter.

Hey, it’s Friday night at the BHT. I believe it’s time to sing. Everyone join in once you have the words down. Ready . . .

DOUGH… the stuff that buys me beer
RAY….. the guy that sells me beer
ME…... the one who drinks the beer
FAR….. a long run to get beer
SO…... I’ll have another beer
LA…... I’ll have another beer
TEA….. no thanks, I’m drinking beer
That will bring us back to DOUGH

Well, someone sent my Calvin is Cool article to the President of a Baptist College in our state. A guy who knows me and was on my ordaining council. And a school that recently put out a faculty member for believing guess what? I was not happy about this forward, as it will surely be sent to my boss who will be none to happy. Of course, I also welcome the opportunity to have a chance to speak up for what I believe and to say that there is no incompatibility between our Baptist confessions and the beliefs of men like Spurgeon and MacArthur and Piper. So I did break a sweat when I heard this, but RIGNEY CAN GET ME A JOB so I’m not worried.

I just sent this out:

Nuge!!

I don’t know if you have been following or paying attention to the events of the last few weeks, however, here in TN, they seem to be caught up completely with the people’s fight against the government and their “need” to steal our money via a brand new state income tax. The long and the short of it is that many of the high ranking officials in our state government are attempting to manipulate our system to push through an income tax that is unconstitutional (as determined by the state supreme court…3 times) and unwanted by the people. For the last two weeks we have had to show up and protest any potential vote on the subject. On one occasion, the speaker of the house called for a vote and got it. 53 opposed and 45 for. These were not the results that he wanted, so he refused to close the vote until he either got some of the no votes to switch to yes or some of the no votes switched to abstain. He got the later of the two options. So, the topic is still free to be reintroduced upon his feeling that he has the votes to pass. Once again, we the people are subject to his manipulation of our system.

I am writing to you to ask for help. We need someone big to help us make a huge sound for freedom. We need someone who’s fans love freedom and are as willing to rabidly defend it as is the artist helping to spread the word. You are that man. I know of no one else that could provoke such a response from the community. I can only imagine the fear and trepidation that the sound of your mighty Gibson would generate as its powerful voice went screaming into the chambers of our legislature.

I hope that you can help.

I personally need the Alarm Fork.

Hey! New feature for the BHT (pending sen’ior moderator’s approval, of course): Random link of the day. Here’s my entry.

SS: I don’t know of any direct relation to those associated with your clan, so I’ll have to say no. ;-) Nice Axe!

Schaper: Ted Nugent Has something for you…..
I get this picture of you looking like Azreal Abyss on Goth Talk. “Steve, How are you today?....FORLORN?”

Rig…You wanted people to bite on poop! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Posted 11:33 AM by Mike Birch
Michael: A COUNTRY song about A FATHER’S EXPERIENCES WITH HIS DAUGHTER . . . hmmmmm? So many innuendoes . . so little time :)
ทAs long as the song wasn’t by David Allan Coe, everything is okay!
Posted 11:20 AM by Mike Birch
Hey, Angus. . .this one is for you, buuuuuuuuuuudy
ทEs No True! The Seep aren’t bothered at all. ;)

Hey Eric – You said she likes the smell of manure… How did she like “Glitter”?

Man, no one’s going to bite on the sentimental thing?? How provocative do i need to be? I suppose it doesn’t count because it’s not an obscure theological hair to split. Bart, pass me the Guiness—and not a measly shot glass full this time!

ScottW: All three bands will be playing the BHT this summer. Free to members.

Group: Here is the sort of thing that gives me a headache. Liberal Southern Baptist Church historian Walter Shurden- one of the first SBTS faculty members to head to the new liberal SB denomination and seminary- gives his wisdom on Calvinism. Where can I start?

“Many Baptist young people raised on John 3:16, are turning to strict Calvinism,” Calvinists have to choose between Calvinism and John 3:16? Sir, if you believe this, you are far too ignorant to talk about Calvinism. Please produce someone who has been wrestling about whether to believe John 3:16 or Calvinism, and I will show you someone who understand neither.
“Calvinists differ from other Baptists primarily on two related points of doctrine. Calvinists teach that before the foundation of the world God chose certain people for salvation, thereby assigning others to damnation by default.” Hmmm, well I thought everyone believed that God chose people before the foundation of the world, Walt. I thought the problem was who chose whom first and why. Not election itself. We all believe in that. Damnation by default?? How about Romans 3:23/6:23a. How about all are lost, guilt and under the righteous judgment of God apart from Jesus Christ. One more attempt to say Calvinists don’t believe in anything but election. tsk tsk.
Let me quote you again: “Calvinism further teaches that God’s grace is so irresistible to the elect that it is not possible for them to die without first professing faith in Christ.” Do you believe it is possible for the elect to die without professing faith in Christ? Please Walt, explain that one further.
“Southern Baptist Calvinists now hold their own annual theological conference, called the Founders Conference.” Yes- for 20 years now. But if you think that’s where Calvinism began among Baptists I think youir career teaching church history was ill chosen.
“Did God use divine sovereignty to “elect” some to salvation, while passing others by? Or did God use divine sovereignty to give all people freedom to respond to the gospel?” Close to an accurate statement, though you act as if “elect” is a word we invented. Its CALVINISM and ARMINIANISM. Salvation guranteed or salvation made possible. We are one, you are the other. Neither is a disease. One matches more texts than the other.
“Historically, a non-Calvinist approach to faith appeared first in Baptist life, Shurden said. Over time, Calvinism became a prominent part of the Baptist tradition, but strict Calvinism never has owned the Baptist field to itself or constituted the major tradition of Baptist life.” Exactly and completely backward. From the inception of Baptist life in America until the second great awakening, Calvinism owned the field and you know it sir. If not, read Nettles. By His Grace…
“The vast majority of Baptists today are not strict Calvinists,” Shurden said.” Right. They are strict Arminian gnostics who believe their own strange version of the fifth point in TULIP. Once you walk an aisle you can never go to hell.
And finally, the epitome of hogwash: “Shurden described Calvin as a “great man,” but said many of his followers have taken his teaching to extremes. In some extremes in Baptist history, Shurden said, Calvinism has generated an anti-missions and anti-evangelism spirit on the grounds that God has already chosen or “elected” those who will have salvation.” Like John Piper, and James Kennedy. Of course, the truth is that Calvinism was the genesis of the modern missions movement and you are not describing Calvinism at all, but hyper Calvinism, a theological system you refuse to acknowledge even exists separate from mainstream, evangelistic, missions oriented Calvinism. Why not go ahead and say today’s evangelistic, missions loving Calvinists aren’t really acting like Calvinists.

Ron H: Too much coolness indeed. Unfortunately, the tour will come nowhere near me. It’s doubly disappointing since I’ve missed KX every time they’ve been around since 97. I may have to take vacation next time.

“throstle,” “roriferous,” “tiralee,” “objicient” “icteric” “pugilist” “badigeon” “verticil” “kakemono” “caulicolous” “stultiloquence” “culgee” “hermeneutics” “soavemente” “toreuti,” and the winner was “prospicience”: Words in the final few rounds of the National Spelling Bee yesterday.

MatthewJ: What does she smell like?

MikeB: You are not doing anything to stamp out stereotypes of Eastern Ky. ;-) Is there a bouncer who will take Mr. Birch outside and give him a thrashing?

Eric: A LEGAL TOTALLY NORMAL RELATIONSHIP WITH A DAUGHTER.

Michael: A COUNTRY song about A FATHER’S EXPERIENCES WITH HIS DAUGHTER . . . hmmmmm? So many innuendoes . . so little time :-)

Hey, Angus. . .this one is for you, buuuuuuuuuuudy

I have a friend who likes the smell a skunk emits right after being run over on a back road in Jessamine County. He also likes that gasoline smell on his fingers after he puts gas in his car. He’s getting married tomorrow to a woman six years older than him.

Professor: Are you claiming to be impervious to a country sentimental ballad that might, let’s say, remind you enormously of your daughter or a father’s experiences with a daughter? ;-)

Good morning, everyone.
On sentimentality: I suppose it is subjective, but I think it’s subjective in the same way that how we respond to the smell of poop is subjective. Believe it or not, I know a normal, well-adjusted community pillar (you know the person, too, Michael) who says she likes the smell of manure. Not just tolerates—likes. Now I respect her right to like the smell of poop, and yes, it is subjective, but I do not share the proclivity.
And no, I have not seen Mariah Carrey’s poop, aka Glitter.
Bart, sometimes I believe we share a brain (I’m not sure who’s got it which day, though). I agree totally with your list of Cher et al. Keep up the good work.

Rob: I think artists with a vision for the CHURCH will find a home in CCM somewhere. But artists with a vision for the culture need to abandon CCM entirely and simply be MUSICIANS who happen to be Christians. If God can make Joseph gov of Egypt, he can make U2 the most popular band in the world.

Let’s see. I have 50% non Christians (200 at least). I have Pentecostals, RCs, every denomination and every style preference from quartets to Christian Death metal. I have Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists, JWs, Mormons, Wiccans and New Agers. What should be my worship style?

A front page piece in our state denomination propagnada sheet, the Western Recorder, (a paper I almost sued once) on the worship wars. I disagree with lots of it. They still haven’t discovered the web, so I can’t show it to you. If I don’t say something about it, I will write yet another article on worship and three has already gotten me exiled from my home church unless I disguise myself as Mcfarland’s mother.

First, this Paul Basden ghettoizes worship into six styles: formal/liturgical, traditional/hymn-based, contemporary music driven, ancient-modern, charismatic, and emerging post-modern. What can I say? All of these are formal/liturgical in some fashion. Very traditional worship can be thoroughly postmodern if you know what you are talking about and not throwing around anything in an A&F shirt as “post modern.” Charismatic is a worship style? That’s interesting because I thought you could find pentecostal/charismatics in all these worship styles. (You can around here.) If his point is there have always ben various styles, that’s fine. Worship reflects cultures and subcultures and presuppositions. There are many many more styles than this, particularly if you care to leave the white suburbs where evangelical experts dwell. Worship style and approach grows out of an interaction between an understanding of God, and understanding of the Bible and the culture in which this occurs. Mr. Basden has just added an example. American evangelical expert multiple choice worship.

Another strange claim: The Bible teaches multiple worship styles. There was a Jerusalem style, a Corinth style, and an Asia Minor style. This is attempting to read multiple choice into the Bible. Do better. The Gospel went to many cultures. The same truth, same God, same Gospel. Each worshipped out of their culture. The Corinthians made a mess of it. (Insert a hundred errors and excesses here.) That is a style?? What Basden is doing is teaching RELATIVISM. He is another evangelical who does not believe the Bible teaches absolutes on worship. On moral issues yes, on worship no. This is a tragic and terrible mistake evangelicals keep making. All worship from Tokyo to New York to Nashville to OBI is judged by the word of God. Yeah the music and the clothes and the length of the service and the kind of communication all reflect culture and history, etc etc etc. But all those things are judged by the Word of God and the God of the Word. Including music. Including the elements of the service. Some he has nothing to say about. Some he has a some very clear things to say about, if anyone is listening.

Last, a quote “Culture is changing, and the church must change in response. This is the incarnational principle of Jesus Christ….If you and I want to reach secular people, they you and I must figure out how to communicate the good news in relevant ways.” This scares me to death. When someone talks this way, here is what I hear. Not adapting the adaptable, but changing what should not be changed. He thinks he is talking about adapting to culture. What winds up happening is changing the message and morphing the Gospel. What I am seeing “adapting to American Suburban evangelical culture” is a wholesale sell off of the Gospel. This is more “the audience is sovereign” marketing Barna garbage. The issue of cultural relavance is addressed in the Gospel itself and its truth about who God is, who we are, what God has said and done, etc. God and his Word and his Gospel are relavant. Cultural adaptation should be simplification and speaking accurately. Incarnation- how about getting crucified. Is that the route American church growth experts are advocating? What would be their advice if they were in Sudan or China or Saudi Arabia?

Post script: Again, assuming worship = evangelism. The same old same old same old.

Bart: I might need your help with the 2 lesbians with the lead pipe, but I gotta slightly disagree with you on your list. Susan Sarandon was halfway decent in “Dead Man Walking”. I do have to hang my head ever so slightly in shame as I confess to owning the DVD of “A League of Their Own” with both Rosie and Madonna. In my defense, it was for my wife…

The CCM industry left daring behind about 10 years ago. That’s when a lot of the edgier labels got folded into the mainstream labels (like Pure Metal, Intense, and Storyville), and the mainstream labels all went, well… mainstream. Would CCM release any of these today: Keith Green’s For Him Who Has Ears to Hear; Petra’s Never Say Die; Larry Norman’s Only Visiting This Planet, or Steve Taylor’s I Predict 1990?

CCM has become a very safe ghetto of inspirational posters set on a CD. Not to say that there aren’t amazing artists who are genuinely sharing their faith and using their gifts to minister to the saints (Third Day comes to mind), but, just like regular music, the vast majority is pablum.

Oh… and Ron H: Satch is indeed the man… but I’ve gotta go with Ty Tabor (King’s X) as my personal fave.

Don’t know what is wrong with the time stamp. It’s decided I live in Nashville. Three new links: Weekly Standard, MEMRI and Instapundit.

RobR: You are certainly in a position to speak to the nature of CCM more than anyone else on the blog. Let’s go back to Rigney’s comment about music needing rebellion. Do you believe that the mainstream CCM industry today has the level of risktaking it did in the late 70’s when it signed up Degarmo and Key and Rez Band?

The two John Hagee links are CRI, and PFO, both of which are solid. (Some of the info on those links pages, though true, comes from people who would view me as the antichrist.) I think it demonstrates the careful editing of these guys that Hagee can take a position that would brand any other person a raging liberal, and it’s utterly unknown to most people. Safe to say its not made its way into any tape series or major books. (Though I don’t read him and only seldom watch him.) I have some real bloodhound friends who watch him all the time and they would smell this a mile away, but nothing.) Most distressing are some quotes where Hagee says if you don’t agree with him on Israel, you are doomed for hell, Harry Potter or not.

I like Hagee, and as far as the TBN crowd goes he is top of the heap. (applause) He is a disciplined and theologically solid preacher. I knew I disagreed with his views on the end times, but obviously this is a man who is beyond correction to take such a strange and unique view and not realize he is out past the fence. Johh, come on back to the BHT and have a sandwich and we can talk about this. Two sandwiches if you want. Or three…..(applause)

The ultimate super suck film of all time, has to be (insert any film with Madonna, Cher, Rosie, Susan Sarandon, Oprah, or Barbara Strisand)…
For Angus, these movies are tantamount to actually living the Mapplethorp “Pinky” photo.

Great sentence Scott. ;-)

I guess the stripper mom sure showed them.

I guess Hagee forgot little ole Galatians 3, esp. 15-18 (RSV)
15 To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man’s will, or adds to it, once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many; but, referring to one, “And to your offspring,” which is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

CRI does have a piece about John Hagee. Nothing really new. I know he is a minor (very minor) offender on health/wealth, but I was surprised to discover that Hagee doesn’t believe Jews need Jesus.

“In fact, trying to convert Jews is a ‘waste of time,’ he said. ‘The Jewish person who has his roots in Judaism is not going to convert to Christianity. There is no form of Christian evangelism that has failed so miserably as evangelizing the Jewish people. They (already) have a faith structure.’ Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced by Christianity…”

What my kids will write about me: “We grew up in an abusive family where daddy ate all our pudding and cookies.”

Sorry- Dobson has nothing to say about Joe. But it sounds like it will send you to hell. So you’re going.

Denise: Mothers have all those great Gospel and Bluegrass songs. (Bluegrass tune) “I don’t wanna go to heaven unless Mama’s already there and cookin’ sumthin’ fer me ta e-yat.” Fathers must be written about. Hardly anyone sings about fathers unless its (bluegrass tune) “Daddy got drunk again this Christmas and peed on the tree.” Second verse: “Mama loved him so much she forgave him and cooked ‘im sumthi’ to eat- then she kicked over dead and went to heaven…” You’ve heard that- it’s the Arkansas State song. ;-)

But, Mrs. Spencer, by entering the fray I predict you are just going for the cheap fan mail.

Great TBN article. I clicked on the link at the bottom and read a couple of the articles. The funny thing about that list of “evangelists” is that I recognize most of their names because The Door has made fun of them in the past.

On our fathers: Great idea to write about them. But how come we didn’t appreciate our mothers? I think Michael’s just hoping his two kids will write something complimentary about him.
On scare-the-public movies: “The Matrix.” In fact, I’m not sure I’m really here right now.

I downloaded the Gourds’ version of Gin and Juice almost 2 years ago off of Napster. It’s still one of the funniest songs I’ve ever heard. “It’s kinda hard bein’ Snoop D-O double G.”

Rigney: I agree that most country singers aren’t rural folk but rural folk listen to little else. I have years of experience in this area. I think country singers will record a song that will sell to their biggest demographic.

MikeB: Dumb and Dumber?!? Caddyshack?!? We should be watching them over and over again!! I’ll tell you a movie that still frightens me: The Tailor of Panama. Also Fried Green Tomatoes and movies about iceskating.

RonH: You are going to hell. I loked up Satriani at the Dobson site. Instant trip to hell.
Steve: You made a funny.
MikeB: Obviously a good mood at the County Attorney’s office has prevailed. A party room at the BHT is available.

Movies that shouldn’t have been made because they would scare the public:

Jaws: “The thing about a shark, it’s got lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll’s eyes. When it comes at you it doesn’t seem to be livin’... until he bites you, and those black eyes roll over white.”

The Exorcist: “Your mother’s in here, Karras. Would you like to leave a message? I’ll see that she gets it!”

The Poseidon Adventure: “We’re sinking and nothings going to keep us from drowning.”

The Towering Inferno: “AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA”

Dumb and Dumber: “When I met Mary, I got that old fashioned romantic feeling, where I’d do anything to bone her.”

Caddyshack: “It’s easy to grin / When your ship comes in / And you’ve got the stock market beat. But the man worthwhile, / Is the man who can smile, / When his shorts are too tight in the seat.”

I believe I found the “land of forgotten misfit lesbians” Steve M referred to earlier . . .

Awesome book title from Susan Konig over at NRO: Why Animals Sleep So Close to the Road (And Other Lies I Tell My Children) Her essay on turning 40 and mourning 911 is excellent.

Eric: Once you are into sentimentalism, I think we’ve really dropped off the meter of into total personal preference. I don’t like most sentimentalism. I loathe it in Christian music. But some political sentimentalism is different for me. Patriotism. Nam vets. Marriages and families getting through bad times. Some (not all) ideas about heaven. Its subjective. Interesting discussion.

Surely you haven’t seen Glitter? Showgirls, Rat Race, Scooby Doo. (You already know this is bad.)

Movies that should not have been made because they would scare the public:
Glitter
Battleship Earth
Down to Earth
Cool as Ice
Titanic

Okay, I guess I’m going to get nailed here, but I have to say that I am glad not more music is maudlin and tearjerking. I hate having my emotions manipulated with sentimental poop. If I get emotional, it should be because there’s something to get emotional about, not because some “artist” put what amounts to a sappy “If-you-love-Jesus-you’ll-send-this-to-20-people” email to music. I gotta say, Gregory, that song you quoted smells like melodrama. Icck.

RobR: OK. It wasn’t me this time. ;-)

One more note on music. In Nashville, the CCM business is far more cut-throat than the country biz. Thinking of how Christians should treat each other, and people in general for that matter, you would think it was the other way around.

Michael: While country music has been perverted over the past few years by the pop diva wanna bees, it is still one of the few genres that will break into both Americana and Christianity. Of course, “where were you” hit the 9/11 nail on the head, but it also paraphrases 1 Corinthians rather nicely. Of course, there have been some songs that were even more blatant, like John Michael Montgomery’s “the Little Girl”:

First day of Sunday School, the teacher walks and sees a sad little girl stare at a picture of Him
She said, “I know that man, up on that cross. I don’t know his name, but I know he got off.
Cause he was there in my old house, held me close to His side,
As I hid there, behind our couch, the night that my parent’s died.”

The song deals with a set of parents that live a drug-crazed lifestyle. One night the father comes home and shoots the mother and then kills himself. A tearjerker that would never get play on pop radio unless the mother was a white cop and the father was a … Well, I think you get the point.

Paul Overstreet used to have a few hits that talked about Christian lifestyle and values that did quite well, and some country stars have even covered hymns on albums. The music has changed lately, which makes me want to turn it off. I am a bit tired of the popish kind of country.

Every so often Drudge makes me so mad I’d like to ask him if he’s gay. Now he’s pushing these “Sum of All Fears Is To Close To Reality” stories. Seems that post 911 with the real danger of a nuke strike on us its irresponsible to show a movie about nuclear terrorism. What is this cryin’? Good grief what a tough country we are. “Don’t show us the scary movie. It makes me have bad dreams. Waaaaah.” C’mon Drudge, we actually did know that Armageddon was a movie.

Anyone want to volunteer films that shouldn’t have been shown because they would scare the public?

I think I agree with y’all about music—how we define our terms seems to be the problem. You all seem to be talking about mainstream artists, ones who get played on MTVVH1CMT. Ecch. You’re right—most of those guys suck and could never put out something like patriotic music. But when you get past all that crap, there are artists all over the place who do whatever the &%@ they want. Mostly, they are people like Van Morrison (who has too much money to care what anyone thinks of his output – just look at his horribly painful duet album with Linda Gail Lewis) on one end of the spectrum, and thousands of starving musicians on the other.
Moby says some interesting things about the music biz in Entertainment Weekly’s latest issue. I tried to link to it, but of course in EWonline’s site they left the best part out of the excerpt. Basically, what he said was that the music biz is making a mistake by ignoring the fringe music and putting all their money into mainstream, cookie-cutter crap. He points out that the people who have changed the course of music historically all started out ignoring trends and doing new things. Interesting interview with him and David Bowie (man, what a couple of space cadets- they belong together).

EricR: I agree. Let’s get the Gourds on TRL. or CMT. Or K-Love.

I would like everyone to notice that Eric gets a job in Academia and he is immediately calling for REBELLION!!

Get this dog a lawyer. (Mcfarland?)

Here’s proof the generation gap is not as bad as it used to be.

Michael: Glad you liked the Gourds. I Still crack up when I hear that song.
Rob R: I’m not sure I agree with you on your assessment that the roots of the music determine its lyrical content and overall effect/aim/motivation. I don’t think Elvis Presley (talk about born out of poverty and hard times!) had much rebellion in mind when he walked into Sun Studios, for all intents and purposes setting the Rock train rolling (sure, I know he stole all of it from black people, I’ve heard it before). Sure, many early rockers were steeped in rebellion, but is this necessarily a bad thing? Isn’t rebellion a good thing sometimes? That’s what’s wrong with the modern music biz, imo, there’s not enough rebellion. too many labels and artists and radio stations content to wade in the muck of the status quo. Thus they turn out lots and lots of cookie-cutter, maudlin, superficial, identical crap (country music included). I just think it’s way to simplistic to say that a music’s current trend reflects its roots. Take your theory of rock, for example: the rebellion at the roots of rock (if that theory is true, which I think in part it is) is not the rebellion of many of the artists you are probably thinking of when you talk about modern rock’s rebellious nature. As I said, sometimes rebellion is good, it gets people thinking and reacting and changing things that need to be changed. I think the thing that will save the music biz (which I think is on the verge of a change-or-perish horizon) is a little rebellion. My crappy opinion, for what it’s worth.

RobR: I’ve thought of enough exceptions to destroy my whole argument, but I wouldn’t admit to being wrong with Rigney in the bar. Slide me another brew.

Hey Scott, there’s two lesbians with a lead pipe here to see you. Should I send Bart?

Just thought I’d let you all know that I’ve found a new church. They’re a little shaky on the theology, tho… :)

Scott: Thanks for the Nuge reference. Of course, Nugent is viewed as some sort of Neanderthal throwback, and well…that’s pretty much right. Ted should have just come over to the Southern Rock crowd. (Somewhere between Almond Bros, 38 Special, Skynard, Charlie Daniels and Hank Jr. (WIth Kid Rock an honorary member of the group now.) Those were the guys who would write a song about kicking some Tali-tail and waving the flag in the process.

Since Ozzy brought it up....

On “No Content”: as a former Charismatic, I feel a need to speak up. I think that Greg B. has made some sound points about the movement. It had and has its good points, especially with its not-so-subtle reminder of the immediate reality of the Holy Spirit. It also has its down sides.

On Harry Potter: Ron H – Personally, I’ve found them to be fairly entertaining kids books that maintain a sly sense of good, dry British humor, which is what attracts adults (like me) to the books. Frankly, if you’re hoping the second book is better… it isn’t by much. The third and fourth books are much better, and don’t end with such a nicely-wrapped-up conclusion.

On Music: The real reason that the vast majority of rock/rap/folk acts aren’t putting out patriotic songs is because they stink. They can’t find anything to rhyme with “Flag” that won’t get the Indigo Girls beating on their doors with lead pipes in the middle of the night. I mean, hey – I even like the Indigos… but they could kick my butt fairly thoroughly, especially with lead pipes.

Seriously, I think ya’ll have hit the nail on the head with all three. When’s the last time a decent, reasonably popular rock/rap/folk act did anything that wasn’t designed to increase the artists’ consumption of cash, chicks, or chemicals? I can tell ya. Ted Nugent’s band in the early 90’s. Did a song called “Don’t Tread on Me” in honor of the soldiers in the Gulf War. Here endeth the lesson.

Steve: Don’t you wish that Cruise had just walked up tot he camera and flipped her off, then gone on a tirade about treating him as a piece of meat. Double standard- O yeah. Now Clinto could get past that.

Peter Jennings: “Mr. President, who do you fantasize about having sex with?”

Eric: What crack are you smokin’ Professor? Do you actually think that a mainstream rap artist could make a patriotic song and not be tagged an Uncle Tom or a freak? And Ryan Adams- give me a break!! MTV yanked that video out of the crapper because it had the twin towers in it and was about NYC. Without 911, that kind of ssong would get on MTV about the time Carson Daly has Rob and I on for a duet of “The Bitch is Back.” If there are variations in style, they are minor. ANd there is a lot less of it now than 50 years ago. Today rap and mainstream rock music are postmodern politics with a soundtrack. No diversity allowed muthaxxxxx

I’ve been so long away I almost forgot my password. Most of the stuff you guys discuss, I could’nt keep up with anyway so I have been content throwing darts in the corner. From the liberal double standard file: Anyone see the final Rosie episode. Though I did not see it, I am told that it ended with Rosie reminding the viewers she has a crush on Tom Cruise. In keeping with her sexual orientation she postured that it was not her dream of having sex with him, rather she wanted him to cut her grass and
serve her lemonade. So the show ends with a camera closing in on a man cutting grass who turns out to be Cruise himself who holds up a glass of lemonade for Rosie. Now that is very cute. However, think of what the impact would be if a male talk show host,
(O’Reilly or Russert) made such a comment about a female. Let’s imagine this dialogue:
O’Reilly: “So, Tim, let me ask you this question. Who do you have a crush on?”
Russert: “Oh that’s easy, Barbara Streisand, of course.”
O’Reilly: “Do you ever fantasize about her?”
Russert: “Absolutely, I think about her all the time.”
O’Reilly: “But aren’t you a married man?”
Russert: “Definitely”
O’Reilly: “So how do you justify wanting to have sex with another woman?”
Russert: “Oh, I don’t want to have sex with Streisand, I just want her to clean out my gutters while I hold the ladder and when she is finished with that I would like her to take a plunger and unclog my bathroom sink.”

Can you imagine what the backlash would be if a male celebrity said such a thing? Can you imagine what Rosie herself would say or do if it were Tom Selleck making those comments? Double standard indeed! Good riddance Rosie, your fifteen minutes have been extended long enough. Off to the land of forgotten misfit lesbians along with Ellen and company.

I don’t agree that the rural nature of country singers is the issue. Many country artists have never been near a farm and have only passed through the countryside at high speeds. A whole lot of them start out in Nashville, which is certainly not rural. I think it’s more a matter of current style. Rock, rap, hip-hop, country, they all go through style periods. Rap started out with very serious issues and emotions (look at Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, for instance), and rock has been known to go through periods of legitimate expression also. And look at country—country hasn’t always been the haven of the positive. Old country (the kind I like the best, actually) was about spittin’ Beechnut in people’s eyes and the hot debate over whether God made honky tonk angels and Sunday mornin’ hangovers. Don’t get me wrong—I love country, bluegrass, rock, soul, folk, some funk, the occasional R&B number (if it’s true to what R&B is supposed to be), and even the rare rap number that comes down the pike. I just think it’s a matter of style. The style for rock right now is to stay away from anything that reveals that you have any but the basest of emotions. The current rap style is bragging about how much money, how many women, how many/what kind of cars you have. It’s all about the current trend in all music. Now we can debate why those trends came about, but I don’t think we should get too hung up on it. Basically, it’s money. If songs about hamsters with herniated discs started selling albums, people would sing about hamsters with herniated discs.
Also, I don’t think all musicians of one genre can be categorized by the genre itself, necessarily. There are those in all genres who break the established trends to do their own things (Ryan Adams’ New York, for instance, is a tribute to NYC, and it was written and recorded before 9-11).

RonH: Well you already use Mozilla so we know you’re the property of the devil, or is it the other way around?///////

More than the machine. The whole culture: the magazines, the writers, the fans, the fellow artists. Other guys in your band!

RobR: Good points. Another thought. Someone somewhere might be writing such songs out of the genre box, but MTV would bite their own butt before playing it.

No- I said in my post that I had experiened such moments instrumentally. Absolutely not. But again, without the content of the worship experience as the reference point, then it becomes whatever I want it to be. So I think the content (preaching, lyrics) have to be the anchor for anything else (silence, instrumental music, spontaneous prayer.) Hey Rob- remember. I did run a P&W band for 5+ years around here!!

You boys have me laughin laughin laughin. Lord knows I need it.

MatthewJ: Under the bad influence of Rigney, I bough a CD by the Guords (hard country) with a bluegrass version of Gin and Juice by Snoop. It is on the web several places- even their site. It is the absolute funniest thing I have ever heard in my life. My wife is getting tired of hearing the bluegrass twanged line “Got a pocketful of rubbers and my homeboys do to,” but I am laughing myself sore.

So guys, music reveals worldview. How undiverse.

Gregory: I am not following you exactly. I have nothing really negative to say about Charismatics per se. PDI are some of my favorite people and they are charismatic. I love many Vineyards. I certainly am more well known around here for encouraging diversity in worship rather than discouraging diversity. I am the guy who let the charismatics loose at our Baptist school. You’ll have to help me with the tinkets and gifts reference and the total trust reference as well.

Michael: As one who has been a member of a charismatic church, I have seen both the good and the bad. At its best, it is a total trust that God still works miracles; at its worst, it is a narcisistic attempt to gain trinkets in the form of gifts, which can be reduced to idol worship. I cannot say that I have seen any church yet that does not have a good and a bad side. I wish I could find that perfect church, but it does not seem to exist as long as there are imperfect people.

biblical languages: I have a rudimentary Greek and Hebrew background. I am working on getting better at my Greek presently, with a return to Hebrew at some later time. It is quite interesting to note just how imprecise the English language is when taken against biblical languages. The scriptures really come to life when looked at in the original langugages. Unfortunately, you are correct, many seminary students get a semester in each language or two rather than a couple of years. As such, they know enough to be dangerous. I had two years of Latin, in high school, but have not read it in so long that I definitely ignorant right now.

As far as bible version go, I generally use the NIV for my day to day reading, but I have quite a few different versions in my bible program. There are some areas where the AV cannot be beaten, although old English is a bit tedious. Most bibles created through the 18000s follow this style.

Angus: Harry Potter is an evil troll that will cast a spell on you and make you want to go out and buy a rice rocket or a nice hog. Oops! Too late! You have already been assimilated. Bwah hah hah hah!!! ;-P

MB: Cats wallop! You know, I felt like I had a distinctly more evil frame of mind following the viewing of our copy of the HP DVD. I guess I just didn’t notice it when I was reading the books to my children. Further, I felt the same amount of evil begin to overtake me during the Lord of The Rings. Especially when Gandalf was at Minus Tirith (his very own Hogwarts as it were). You know, I think I should destroy my copy…Baaaa…I should stand up aginst…Baaaa…this obviously evil…Baaaa…instruction manual for…Baaaa…Satan…I feel strange…Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa Baaa…Baaa…Baa

MJ: don’t forget about those mullet wearing, ladies basketball playing, rainbow flag flying indigo girls!

I’ll tell you why. In rap, people want to hear about guys #%^$$ their *%@#&@% while smoking weed and shooting people. I should know, I listened to gangsta rap for years in high school. Hip hop, no one wants to hear about patriotism or God when there is nothing but bumping and grinding to talk about. Rock, well, today “rock” is all about what losers the singers are. Chicks feels sorry for them and say “You’re not a loser, you’re a stud.” Folky music is listened to by granola eating tree hugging freaks who don’t care about our country or any religion with exclusivist claims. Country, on the other hand, is primarily sung and listened to by rural folks. More patriotic and more religious.

I just listened to a bit of CMT and heard Alan Jackson’s performance of “Where were you when the world stopped turnin’,” a wonderful song about people’s reaction to 911. I have a question. Why can country music create and make successful an openly patriotic song, while rap, hip hop and rock cannot and will not? I really wanna know.

Updating IM with a story about TBN (cryptic reference to a Boar’s Head member in there somewhere.)

Things have been way too polite around here lately. Maybe this will get things fired up. Hey Agnus, I agree with everything posted on this page . . .

Michael – as to your point #1, I say “Amen.” I majored in English Lit. in college. Do you know where I learned English grammar and syntax? I took three semesters of classical Greek and two semesters of Latin. They were the best investment of my life. One of the reasons I like A River Runs Through It is that Tom Skerrit’s character (the Presby minister/father) didn’t send his boys to public school when they were young. He made them read and write all day long. Math is easy. If you know math then the sciences will follow. Reading and writing are hard. I think kids should learn reading and writing early and often in their development. Crap, I could teach calculus to high school students.

Ron – Blessings to you as you learn Greek. I appreciate your desire to dig deeply into Scripture. The task is difficult but the rewards are unbelievable. If you need any help or advice…..ask Michael ;)

RobR: You just need to join Pipertalk, but don’t have it sent to your e-mail. Just go to Yahoo groups and read the threads you want. I still enjoy some of the discussions, though not the ones that finally ran me off once and Matthew permanently.

No content= no words. I have experienced this many times, both vocally and instrumentally. As an occaisonal phenomenon, I think it is very emotionally moving, and creatively beautiful and potentially worshipful. On the other hand, I readily understand why some would be concerned if this became a regular (let’s do it- let’s plan to do it) part of the menu. (An order of service with “Singing in the Spirit” listed after the children’s sermon.) And if it became a part of someone’s worship leadership- for example encouraging certain persons in the church to “get it started” at the end of some songs, I would see that very negatively. Biblical worship needs Biblical content. I can see where one word and no word expressions have a place, but the whole of Biblical revelation is thumping us over the head to Praise the Lord for things we can think about and say. (See the first corporate worship exp in the Bible: Exodus 15. Someone used this in an article somewhere.) Yeah, they could have ended that with some spontaneous halle this or thats, but the experience was full of content. If I were in a church- esp one that was intentionally reformed in worship as BCC tries to be- I would be distressed if this started appearing every week and we heard “O this is the spirit and better than those old hymns.”

MatthewJ: I was required to take two YEARS of Greek and one semester of Hebrew (or vice versa) at SBTS. I think that is still the case. The other problem as you know is that you can’t teach Biblical languages to either 1) ignorant savages who don’t know English grammar or 2) post modernists who don’t think language is anything but politics anyway.