CRI does have a piece about John Hagee. Nothing really new. I know he is a minor (very minor) offender on health/wealth, but I was surprised to discover that Hagee doesn’t believe Jews need Jesus.

“In fact, trying to convert Jews is a �waste of time,’ he said. �The Jewish person who has his roots in Judaism is not going to convert to Christianity. There is no form of Christian evangelism that has failed so miserably as evangelizing the Jewish people. They (already) have a faith structure.’ Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced by Christianity…”

What my kids will write about me: “We grew up in an abusive family where daddy ate all our pudding and cookies.”

Sorry- Dobson has nothing to say about Joe. But it sounds like it will send you to hell. So you’re going.

Denise: Mothers have all those great Gospel and Bluegrass songs. (Bluegrass tune) “I don’t wanna go to heaven unless Mama’s already there and cookin’ sumthin’ fer me ta e-yat.” Fathers must be written about. Hardly anyone sings about fathers unless its (bluegrass tune) “Daddy got drunk again this Christmas and peed on the tree.” Second verse: “Mama loved him so much she forgave him and cooked ‘im sumthi’ to eat- then she kicked over dead and went to heaven…” You’ve heard that- it’s the Arkansas State song. ;-)

But, Mrs. Spencer, by entering the fray I predict you are just going for the cheap fan mail.

Great TBN article. I clicked on the link at the bottom and read a couple of the articles. The funny thing about that list of “evangelists” is that I recognize most of their names because The Door has made fun of them in the past.

On our fathers: Great idea to write about them. But how come we didn’t appreciate our mothers? I think Michael’s just hoping his two kids will write something complimentary about him.
On scare-the-public movies: “The Matrix.” In fact, I’m not sure I’m really here right now.

I downloaded the Gourds’ version of Gin and Juice almost 2 years ago off of Napster. It’s still one of the funniest songs I’ve ever heard. “It’s kinda hard bein’ Snoop D-O double G.”

Rigney: I agree that most country singers aren’t rural folk but rural folk listen to little else. I have years of experience in this area. I think country singers will record a song that will sell to their biggest demographic.

MikeB: Dumb and Dumber?!? Caddyshack?!? We should be watching them over and over again!! I’ll tell you a movie that still frightens me: The Tailor of Panama. Also Fried Green Tomatoes and movies about iceskating.

RonH: You are going to hell. I loked up Satriani at the Dobson site. Instant trip to hell.
Steve: You made a funny.
MikeB: Obviously a good mood at the County Attorney’s office has prevailed. A party room at the BHT is available.

Movies that shouldn’t have been made because they would scare the public:

Jaws: “The thing about a shark, it’s got lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll’s eyes. When it comes at you it doesn’t seem to be livin’... until he bites you, and those black eyes roll over white.”

The Exorcist: “Your mother’s in here, Karras. Would you like to leave a message? I’ll see that she gets it!”

The Poseidon Adventure: “We’re sinking and nothings going to keep us from drowning.”

The Towering Inferno: “AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA”

Dumb and Dumber: “When I met Mary, I got that old fashioned romantic feeling, where I’d do anything to bone her.”

Caddyshack: “It’s easy to grin / When your ship comes in / And you’ve got the stock market beat. But the man worthwhile, / Is the man who can smile, / When his shorts are too tight in the seat.”

I believe I found the “land of forgotten misfit lesbians” Steve M referred to earlier . . .

Awesome book title from Susan Konig over at NRO: Why Animals Sleep So Close to the Road (And Other Lies I Tell My Children) Her essay on turning 40 and mourning 911 is excellent.

Eric: Once you are into sentimentalism, I think we’ve really dropped off the meter of into total personal preference. I don’t like most sentimentalism. I loathe it in Christian music. But some political sentimentalism is different for me. Patriotism. Nam vets. Marriages and families getting through bad times. Some (not all) ideas about heaven. Its subjective. Interesting discussion.

Surely you haven’t seen Glitter? Showgirls, Rat Race, Scooby Doo. (You already know this is bad.)

Movies that should not have been made because they would scare the public:
Glitter
Battleship Earth
Down to Earth
Cool as Ice
Titanic

Okay, I guess I’m going to get nailed here, but I have to say that I am glad not more music is maudlin and tearjerking. I hate having my emotions manipulated with sentimental poop. If I get emotional, it should be because there’s something to get emotional about, not because some “artist” put what amounts to a sappy “If-you-love-Jesus-you’ll-send-this-to-20-people” email to music. I gotta say, Gregory, that song you quoted smells like melodrama. Icck.

RobR: OK. It wasn’t me this time. ;-)

One more note on music. In Nashville, the CCM business is far more cut-throat than the country biz. Thinking of how Christians should treat each other, and people in general for that matter, you would think it was the other way around.

Michael: While country music has been perverted over the past few years by the pop diva wanna bees, it is still one of the few genres that will break into both Americana and Christianity. Of course, “where were you” hit the 9/11 nail on the head, but it also paraphrases 1 Corinthians rather nicely. Of course, there have been some songs that were even more blatant, like John Michael Montgomery’s “the Little Girl”:

First day of Sunday School, the teacher walks and sees a sad little girl stare at a picture of Him
She said, “I know that man, up on that cross. I don’t know his name, but I know he got off.
Cause he was there in my old house, held me close to His side,
As I hid there, behind our couch, the night that my parent’s died.”

The song deals with a set of parents that live a drug-crazed lifestyle. One night the father comes home and shoots the mother and then kills himself. A tearjerker that would never get play on pop radio unless the mother was a white cop and the father was a … Well, I think you get the point.

Paul Overstreet used to have a few hits that talked about Christian lifestyle and values that did quite well, and some country stars have even covered hymns on albums. The music has changed lately, which makes me want to turn it off. I am a bit tired of the popish kind of country.

Every so often Drudge makes me so mad I’d like to ask him if he’s gay. Now he’s pushing these “Sum of All Fears Is To Close To Reality” stories. Seems that post 911 with the real danger of a nuke strike on us its irresponsible to show a movie about nuclear terrorism. What is this cryin’? Good grief what a tough country we are. “Don’t show us the scary movie. It makes me have bad dreams. Waaaaah.” C’mon Drudge, we actually did know that Armageddon was a movie.

Anyone want to volunteer films that shouldn’t have been shown because they would scare the public?

I think I agree with y’all about music—how we define our terms seems to be the problem. You all seem to be talking about mainstream artists, ones who get played on MTVVH1CMT. Ecch. You’re right—most of those guys suck and could never put out something like patriotic music. But when you get past all that crap, there are artists all over the place who do whatever the &%@ they want. Mostly, they are people like Van Morrison (who has too much money to care what anyone thinks of his output – just look at his horribly painful duet album with Linda Gail Lewis) on one end of the spectrum, and thousands of starving musicians on the other.
Moby says some interesting things about the music biz in Entertainment Weekly’s latest issue. I tried to link to it, but of course in EWonline’s site they left the best part out of the excerpt. Basically, what he said was that the music biz is making a mistake by ignoring the fringe music and putting all their money into mainstream, cookie-cutter crap. He points out that the people who have changed the course of music historically all started out ignoring trends and doing new things. Interesting interview with him and David Bowie (man, what a couple of space cadets- they belong together).

EricR: I agree. Let’s get the Gourds on TRL. or CMT. Or K-Love.

I would like everyone to notice that Eric gets a job in Academia and he is immediately calling for REBELLION!!

Get this dog a lawyer. (Mcfarland?)

Here’s proof the generation gap is not as bad as it used to be.

Michael: Glad you liked the Gourds. I Still crack up when I hear that song.
Rob R: I’m not sure I agree with you on your assessment that the roots of the music determine its lyrical content and overall effect/aim/motivation. I don’t think Elvis Presley (talk about born out of poverty and hard times!) had much rebellion in mind when he walked into Sun Studios, for all intents and purposes setting the Rock train rolling (sure, I know he stole all of it from black people, I’ve heard it before). Sure, many early rockers were steeped in rebellion, but is this necessarily a bad thing? Isn’t rebellion a good thing sometimes? That’s what’s wrong with the modern music biz, imo, there’s not enough rebellion. too many labels and artists and radio stations content to wade in the muck of the status quo. Thus they turn out lots and lots of cookie-cutter, maudlin, superficial, identical crap (country music included). I just think it’s way to simplistic to say that a music’s current trend reflects its roots. Take your theory of rock, for example: the rebellion at the roots of rock (if that theory is true, which I think in part it is) is not the rebellion of many of the artists you are probably thinking of when you talk about modern rock’s rebellious nature. As I said, sometimes rebellion is good, it gets people thinking and reacting and changing things that need to be changed. I think the thing that will save the music biz (which I think is on the verge of a change-or-perish horizon) is a little rebellion. My crappy opinion, for what it’s worth.

RobR: I’ve thought of enough exceptions to destroy my whole argument, but I wouldn’t admit to being wrong with Rigney in the bar. Slide me another brew.

Hey Scott, there’s two lesbians with a lead pipe here to see you. Should I send Bart?

Just thought I’d let you all know that I’ve found a new church. They’re a little shaky on the theology, tho… :)

Scott: Thanks for the Nuge reference. Of course, Nugent is viewed as some sort of Neanderthal throwback, and well…that’s pretty much right. Ted should have just come over to the Southern Rock crowd. (Somewhere between Almond Bros, 38 Special, Skynard, Charlie Daniels and Hank Jr. (WIth Kid Rock an honorary member of the group now.) Those were the guys who would write a song about kicking some Tali-tail and waving the flag in the process.

Since Ozzy brought it up....

On “No Content”: as a former Charismatic, I feel a need to speak up. I think that Greg B. has made some sound points about the movement. It had and has its good points, especially with its not-so-subtle reminder of the immediate reality of the Holy Spirit. It also has its down sides.

On Harry Potter: Ron H – Personally, I’ve found them to be fairly entertaining kids books that maintain a sly sense of good, dry British humor, which is what attracts adults (like me) to the books. Frankly, if you’re hoping the second book is better… it isn’t by much. The third and fourth books are much better, and don’t end with such a nicely-wrapped-up conclusion.

On Music: The real reason that the vast majority of rock/rap/folk acts aren’t putting out patriotic songs is because they stink. They can’t find anything to rhyme with “Flag” that won’t get the Indigo Girls beating on their doors with lead pipes in the middle of the night. I mean, hey – I even like the Indigos… but they could kick my butt fairly thoroughly, especially with lead pipes.

Seriously, I think ya’ll have hit the nail on the head with all three. When’s the last time a decent, reasonably popular rock/rap/folk act did anything that wasn’t designed to increase the artists’ consumption of cash, chicks, or chemicals? I can tell ya. Ted Nugent’s band in the early 90’s. Did a song called “Don’t Tread on Me” in honor of the soldiers in the Gulf War. Here endeth the lesson.

Steve: Don’t you wish that Cruise had just walked up tot he camera and flipped her off, then gone on a tirade about treating him as a piece of meat. Double standard- O yeah. Now Clinto could get past that.

Peter Jennings: “Mr. President, who do you fantasize about having sex with?”

Eric: What crack are you smokin’ Professor? Do you actually think that a mainstream rap artist could make a patriotic song and not be tagged an Uncle Tom or a freak? And Ryan Adams- give me a break!! MTV yanked that video out of the crapper because it had the twin towers in it and was about NYC. Without 911, that kind of ssong would get on MTV about the time Carson Daly has Rob and I on for a duet of “The Bitch is Back.” If there are variations in style, they are minor. ANd there is a lot less of it now than 50 years ago. Today rap and mainstream rock music are postmodern politics with a soundtrack. No diversity allowed muthaxxxxx

I’ve been so long away I almost forgot my password. Most of the stuff you guys discuss, I could’nt keep up with anyway so I have been content throwing darts in the corner. From the liberal double standard file: Anyone see the final Rosie episode. Though I did not see it, I am told that it ended with Rosie reminding the viewers she has a crush on Tom Cruise. In keeping with her sexual orientation she postured that it was not her dream of having sex with him, rather she wanted him to cut her grass and
serve her lemonade. So the show ends with a camera closing in on a man cutting grass who turns out to be Cruise himself who holds up a glass of lemonade for Rosie. Now that is very cute. However, think of what the impact would be if a male talk show host,
(O’Reilly or Russert) made such a comment about a female. Let’s imagine this dialogue:
O’Reilly: “So, Tim, let me ask you this question. Who do you have a crush on?”
Russert: “Oh that’s easy, Barbara Streisand, of course.”
O’Reilly: “Do you ever fantasize about her?”
Russert: “Absolutely, I think about her all the time.”
O’Reilly: “But aren’t you a married man?”
Russert: “Definitely”
O’Reilly: “So how do you justify wanting to have sex with another woman?”
Russert: “Oh, I don’t want to have sex with Streisand, I just want her to clean out my gutters while I hold the ladder and when she is finished with that I would like her to take a plunger and unclog my bathroom sink.”

Can you imagine what the backlash would be if a male celebrity said such a thing? Can you imagine what Rosie herself would say or do if it were Tom Selleck making those comments? Double standard indeed! Good riddance Rosie, your fifteen minutes have been extended long enough. Off to the land of forgotten misfit lesbians along with Ellen and company.

I don’t agree that the rural nature of country singers is the issue. Many country artists have never been near a farm and have only passed through the countryside at high speeds. A whole lot of them start out in Nashville, which is certainly not rural. I think it’s more a matter of current style. Rock, rap, hip-hop, country, they all go through style periods. Rap started out with very serious issues and emotions (look at Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, for instance), and rock has been known to go through periods of legitimate expression also. And look at country—country hasn’t always been the haven of the positive. Old country (the kind I like the best, actually) was about spittin’ Beechnut in people’s eyes and the hot debate over whether God made honky tonk angels and Sunday mornin’ hangovers. Don’t get me wrong—I love country, bluegrass, rock, soul, folk, some funk, the occasional R&B number (if it’s true to what R&B is supposed to be), and even the rare rap number that comes down the pike. I just think it’s a matter of style. The style for rock right now is to stay away from anything that reveals that you have any but the basest of emotions. The current rap style is bragging about how much money, how many women, how many/what kind of cars you have. It’s all about the current trend in all music. Now we can debate why those trends came about, but I don’t think we should get too hung up on it. Basically, it’s money. If songs about hamsters with herniated discs started selling albums, people would sing about hamsters with herniated discs.
Also, I don’t think all musicians of one genre can be categorized by the genre itself, necessarily. There are those in all genres who break the established trends to do their own things (Ryan Adams’ New York, for instance, is a tribute to NYC, and it was written and recorded before 9-11).

RonH: Well you already use Mozilla so we know you’re the property of the devil, or is it the other way around?///////

More than the machine. The whole culture: the magazines, the writers, the fans, the fellow artists. Other guys in your band!

RobR: Good points. Another thought. Someone somewhere might be writing such songs out of the genre box, but MTV would bite their own butt before playing it.

No- I said in my post that I had experiened such moments instrumentally. Absolutely not. But again, without the content of the worship experience as the reference point, then it becomes whatever I want it to be. So I think the content (preaching, lyrics) have to be the anchor for anything else (silence, instrumental music, spontaneous prayer.) Hey Rob- remember. I did run a P&W band for 5+ years around here!!

You boys have me laughin laughin laughin. Lord knows I need it.

MatthewJ: Under the bad influence of Rigney, I bough a CD by the Guords (hard country) with a bluegrass version of Gin and Juice by Snoop. It is on the web several places- even their site. It is the absolute funniest thing I have ever heard in my life. My wife is getting tired of hearing the bluegrass twanged line “Got a pocketful of rubbers and my homeboys do to,” but I am laughing myself sore.

So guys, music reveals worldview. How undiverse.

Gregory: I am not following you exactly. I have nothing really negative to say about Charismatics per se. PDI are some of my favorite people and they are charismatic. I love many Vineyards. I certainly am more well known around here for encouraging diversity in worship rather than discouraging diversity. I am the guy who let the charismatics loose at our Baptist school. You’ll have to help me with the tinkets and gifts reference and the total trust reference as well.

Michael: As one who has been a member of a charismatic church, I have seen both the good and the bad. At its best, it is a total trust that God still works miracles; at its worst, it is a narcisistic attempt to gain trinkets in the form of gifts, which can be reduced to idol worship. I cannot say that I have seen any church yet that does not have a good and a bad side. I wish I could find that perfect church, but it does not seem to exist as long as there are imperfect people.

biblical languages: I have a rudimentary Greek and Hebrew background. I am working on getting better at my Greek presently, with a return to Hebrew at some later time. It is quite interesting to note just how imprecise the English language is when taken against biblical languages. The scriptures really come to life when looked at in the original langugages. Unfortunately, you are correct, many seminary students get a semester in each language or two rather than a couple of years. As such, they know enough to be dangerous. I had two years of Latin, in high school, but have not read it in so long that I definitely ignorant right now.

As far as bible version go, I generally use the NIV for my day to day reading, but I have quite a few different versions in my bible program. There are some areas where the AV cannot be beaten, although old English is a bit tedious. Most bibles created through the 18000s follow this style.

Angus: Harry Potter is an evil troll that will cast a spell on you and make you want to go out and buy a rice rocket or a nice hog. Oops! Too late! You have already been assimilated. Bwah hah hah hah!!! ;-P

MB: Cats wallop! You know, I felt like I had a distinctly more evil frame of mind following the viewing of our copy of the HP DVD. I guess I just didn’t notice it when I was reading the books to my children. Further, I felt the same amount of evil begin to overtake me during the Lord of The Rings. Especially when Gandalf was at Minus Tirith (his very own Hogwarts as it were). You know, I think I should destroy my copy�Baaaa�I should stand up aginst�Baaaa�this obviously evil�Baaaa�instruction manual for�Baaaa�Satan�I feel strange�Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa Baaa�Baaa�Baa

MJ: don’t forget about those mullet wearing, ladies basketball playing, rainbow flag flying indigo girls!