From Steve Gushee at the Palm Beach Post via CT: A Weeeeeeeee Bit overboard there fellow. I agree the Christian artistic community isn’t up to the job, but the rest of this is nonsense: There are fans, and then there are fans. Steve Gushee, religion writer for the Palm Beach Post and Cox News Service is apparently a superfan of Bruce Springsteen. “The Boss is an unlikely candidate for sainthood in most religious traditions,” Gushee writes. “Still, [his latest album] The Rising is a profound faith statement regarding Sept. 11 that no religious group has equaled.…Thank God, someone is doing the church’s job.” The church, according to Cox, “offered little to soothe the angst felt almost universally after the catastrophes at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and on that Pennsylvania farmland.” He faults Catholics for being too distracted by the pedophilia scandal and says “Prominent Protestant leaders” such as Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Franklin Graham “have behaved disgracefully…[offering] recrimination and accusation in place of reconciliation and hope.…Springsteen, on the other hand, sings of prayer, resurrection and new life.” Finally someone dares to speak the truth!!! Knock Falwell, Robertson, Graham, and some Catholic bishops off the list, and absolutely no Christian leaders have said anything healing about 9/11. No one has provided any direction or hope from the ruins of the World Trade Center. Dude, give us a break.

And the Capitalistic takeover of Christianity gains speed, as Chevrolet sponsors MWS and Third Day tour.

Jack: Come home soon. (And get a layover within driving distance!) No, really. The Washington Times is reporting that the Brits rate the death of Diana a more significant event than WWII. Is that creepy? Or course, American blacks recently rated Bill Clinton a better President than…...oh…..I probably don’t want to go there. But, well, you know what I mean.

What a shame. Prison inmates here in the Bluegrass State can’t practice Satanism anymore.

Here’s a couple of discussion starters I’d like to hear you folks try out:

1) A couple comes to a pastor for marriage counseling. They tell him that they are not Christians. And they don’t plan to become Christians. But they do want marriage counseling. What should the pastor do and WHY? Then assume the marriage is saved, but the couple is just as opposed to Christ. How should the pastor view his ministry to them? (Or would it be IMPOSSIBLE for him to help them at all.)

2) What do you think of applause in worship? A solid argument can be made that applause- as practiced in many churches today- is about the most human-centered activity you could add into a service. Should pastors encourage this or ask congregations to learn how to do without it?

MatthewJ: Any good bands or creative ministries at AC or ATS that I might get down here some weekend?

Larry: John’s little bit about “hardcore Southern Baptists” was a mis-statement. He meant to say “hardcore Southern Gospel fans.” I don’t think Southern Baptist could be applied to our school since we are in no way affiliated with the SBC or receive funds from the SBC. We receive KBC funds, and the staff is from a variety of backgrounds, mostly Southern Baptist. BTW- when you hear people say Spencer IS a Presby, be sure and correct them that I am the interim pastor FOR a Presby Church. I’m an employee. I consider myself a thoroughly Reformed Spurgeonite.

Michael: I am a skeptic at heart, so I would not be too fearful of that. Skepticism does not cloud the truth, it just forces you to take a harder look at things. The truth ultimately shines through. The problem is so many use the word theory as truth. No matter how much information you use, if your evidence is not conclusive, you are not speaking the truth when you say something is proven.

Ron: I think the issue is not whether lying is sin, but what the definition of lying is. To me, ultimately, if Jesus is the Truth, then everything that is contra to his teachings and being must be a lie, and therefore sin. As you have pointed out, however, we have largely run the course of this debate.

When seeking for the truth, one must look at the current world situation and realize that certain things are destined to happen. In the world today, there are rich nations and poor nations. Much of the reasoning why certain nations are blessed economically, is directly related to their educational advances, creation of new technologies, et al. I also believe that the religion one chooses is important, which can be extrapolated by looking at the predominate religions of nations and the prosperity of those whom have chosen Judeo-Christian as their primary path … but that is a story for another thread.

I got on this topic after seeing the CNN coverage of the World Summit, which our president did not attend. The thrust, which has been expounded on again and again, is one of reducing the disparity between rich and poor nations by creating some form of poor nation welfare. It seems history should teach us that this does not work. Here is the general scenario. The U.S. sees a poor country, with large numbers of its population starving. We try to solve the problem, either through government or pop stars, to ease the suffering by sending large amounts of aid. Enter the despot war lord, who steals all of the aid. If it is money, he buys himself some neat stuff; if it is food, he steals it, sells it, and buys himself some neat stuff. Thus, the pockets of the war lords are filled, and the people still starve.

The latest push is form some form of world-wide tax to supplement the poor nations, which means that the rich nations primarily pay. Without some means of distributing the money and aid where it cannot get into the hands of the despot, we will not be successful, no matter how much we take from the wealthy people or nations. You would think that we would learn from our own failed welfare system. To suggest that the rich nations should fork out even larger amounts of money, without a system to guarantee its distribution, we are talking a system much worse than welfare.

Last night’s concert here at OBI renewed my convictions that contemporary Christian music and the modern evangelical mindset are a volatile mix. It should be said that the band I brought in is fronted by a Roman Catholic. You wouldn’t know that from any of the content of the songs, but the guy does absolutely no invitations. Doesn’t know what they are, which is very very OK with me. But that doesn’t deter the students who come from churches with extended “ministry times” at the altar or all that youth camp extreme invitationalism training. After the obligatory trip down front to sway and clap, things then turned into a circus, with huddles of students (mostly girls) crying, hugging, wandering from pack to pack. At one point, I was convinced the girls caught up in the frenzy had no idea what was going on musically. Matt could have been singing the phone book, farting into the mic or proclaiming God is dead and the altar call frenzy would have continued. (I still have enough Vineyard in me to let this go, because in the middle of it I could see some kids responding for the first time and I do believe God can sort it all out. ANd if I quelch it, I won’t last long around here.) The last song was a version of Amazing Grace, starting really slow and then going really very hard, fast rock style. On the slow parts, the altar shenanigans gang was praying, on the fast parts they were thrashing. (I sorta wished Matt could have gone back and forth a few times, just to see what they would do.) Call me cynical, but this is pure voluntary manipulation and adaptation. “What are we all doing know?” All very Corinthian. All we needed was compulsory tongue-speaking.

I hope you guys have picked up that what I wouldn’t allow in my church, I have to allow in a Southern Baptist School. I’m only slightly schizo. I feel like Jonathan Edwrds, preaching reformed theology while someone rolls by on the floor bellowing like a moose.

Well, now that you have figured out I am not going to be on the New Beverly Hillbillies, Rob Dehrer calls out the networks and b-slaps ‘em up sida da hed with this article on how the contemplated reality show is Hollywood’s attempt to get ratings at the expense of the last group of people in America it is OK to ridicule: poor, southern (appalachian), white, conservative, Bible believers. America’s new n******s. It is a brilliant piece and I hope it’s mailed to every producer contemplating this so they can see the blatant hypocrisy. Dehrer hits the ball out of the park with his analogy of what would happen if you used inner-city blacks as the basis for your reality show humor. Look guys, stick with burned out celebs.

Now that’s how one handles a bunch of stinking whiners!

Jim N: I’ve been watching your postings carefully and have come to the conclusion that you’re gonna fit in here. I’m buying the next round. What are you drinking?

“Elseblog”? Very cool word. Is that original with you? I’ve never seen it before.

I’m off to York today to see York Minster. It’s about 200 miles from my house, so I’ll actually do some serious driving today. I’ll post my thoughts upon my return.

Just in case anyone had lost count, I go home in 14 days.

Michael S: We have 4 children, ages 9, 7, 5, and 2. We homeschool them. They are learning Arabic as well as English (and, at the moment, Latin) but we’re not pushing it too hard. The older kids have enough words to carry on a conversation with my in-laws (they do better than me.)

My 9/11 experiences are documented elseblog, as well as what happened that night. I’m probably one of the few people I know who saw most of the events – from the 2nd plane impact to the collapses – directly (albeit from 14 miles away) rather than on TV.

What isn’t documented anywhere is this: reaction to 9/11 was the thing that pushed us to leave our church (where we had attended for 10 years, and I was a deacon) for another. There were lots of other reasons – some doctrinal, some practical – but for a long time I’ve felt unable to write it all out. I probably should blog it at some point.

Michael S: When I was a little boy in Indiana Oklahoma, if someone had told me that one day I’d be getting on the Artist Blog of the Millennium award, I wouldn’t have believed it.

I can’t believe it.

Don’t believe it.

ScottW: Check out the blog over at Relevant mag. A great piece on the VMA mess.

BTW, let me say what I don’t say enough: that I really appreciate everyone’s contribution here at BHT and I learn daily that we do have more readers all the time. I think our blog is unique, in that I have never come across one that has such an intelligent discussion, mixed with humor, interesting inter-personal relationships and some genuine Christian fellowship. All of you- even the ones who rarely post- make BHT what it is, and heck, have a free one on me. We weren’t on the VMAs, but we should be.

Michael S: The Sun?? You’re reading The Sun? The paper version of the Jerry Springer show?

I think you are taking this Beverly Hillbillies audition waaaaay too seriously.

Now here’s a shocker. The much-touted Sustainable Development Summit in South Africa is coming unraveled. (I suspect this event has not generated quite the avalanche of publicity back at home that it has here in Euro-land.)

Apparently this high-power gathering of socialist do-gooders from around the world has not turned out to be the giant love-in it was advertised to be. Fortunately, the rest of the world can still blame the US for scuppering the whole deal. That’s the role we now play in world politics – the big stupid kid who gets blamed for everything.

What a bunch of morons.

I’ve got an idea that will truly help the third world advance on the path to sustainable development – Nuke Johanessburg.

Now….the fans turn on the mascots. “I was about 10 years old and went to a carnival to see the Phillie Phanatic (the Philadelphia Phillies big, green, furry mascot). As he was leaving I ran towards him and I heard him say to the person walking with him, ‘I hate these f******** kids.’ Needless to say I was devastated. This experience certainly was a major contributing factor to my very cynical outlook on life. F***** these mascots.”

A 49-year-old woman stepped outside her home and noticed a nicely wrapped package—with a birthday card—sitting on the stoop. She started to pick it up, but became suspicious when she recognized the handwriting inside the card as that of her former boyfriend. Cops were called and they determined the package contained a bomb. “It would have killed her, had she continued and triggered that thing,” says an officer. (Milwaukee Journal Sentinel)

Jack: English journalism at its best: Man has sex with frozen chicken.

I honestly want to know if any on you know people you believe are capable of leaving their child in a car to die from the heat. Everytime I read this it just freaks me out that we have become a country of dangerously stupid people.

I think we should start a pool on how long it will take to fly the American flag over Baghdad. I am serious. What a joke.

Read this paragraph on another list. Found it rather provocative. Can’t agree with it entirely, but rather interesting in some ways.

“I read “The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity,” by Leon Podles, a short time back. He makes a case that all three persons of the trinity are masculine entities exhibiting masculine traits (i.e, one who calls out, judge, defender, one who seeks out his beloved, provider, sacrificing self unto death, coach, etc.) The femininity of God is reflected precisely in that God’s nature is Trinitarian. There is union and relationship in the Trinity. (i.e. welcoming, nurturing, inclusive, devoted to relationship, giving, etc.)

Not exactly my style, but cute. (If theologically flawed. Still creative.)

Important Recall Notice (Read Carefully)

The Maker of all human beings is recalling all units manufactured, regardless of make or year, due to the serious defect in the primary and central component of the heart. This is due to a malfunction in the original prototype units code named Adam and Eve, resulting in their production of the same defect in all subsequent units. This defect has been technically termed, “Subsequential Internal Non-morality,” or more commonly known as SIN as it is primarily expressed.

Some other symptoms:
[a] Loss of direction
[b] Lack of peace and joy
[c] Depression or confusion in the mental component
[d] Foul vocal emissions
[e] Selfish, violent behavior
[f] Amnesia of origin
[g] Fearfulness
[h] Rebellion.

The Manufacturer, Who is neither liable nor at fault for this defect, is providing factory authorized repair and service free of charge to correct this SIN defect. The Repair Technician, Jesus, has most generously offered to bear the entire burden of the staggering cost of these repairs. There is no additional fee required. The number to call for repair in all areas is: P-R-A-Y-E-R. Once connected please upload your burden of SIN through the REPENTANCE procedure.

Next, download ATONEMENT from the Repair Technician, Jesus, into the heart component. No matter how big or small the SIN defect is, Jesus will replace it with [a] Love [b] Joy© Peace [d] Kindness [e] Goodness [f] Faithfulness [g] Gentleness [h] Patience [I] Self-control.

Please see the operating manual, HOLY BIBLE, for further details on the use of these fixes. As an added upgrade, the Manufacturer has made it available to all repaired units a facility enabling direct monitoring and assistance from the resident Maintenance Technician, the Holy Ghost. Repaired units need only make Him welcome and He will take up residence on the premises.

WARNING: Continuing to operate the human being unit without corrections voids the Manufacturer’s warranty, exposing the unit to dangers and problems too numerous to list and will result in the human unit being permanently impounded. For free emergency service, call on JESUS.

DANGER: The human being units not responding to this recall action will have to be scrapped in the furnace. The SIN defect will not be permitted to enter Heaven so as to prevent contamination of that facility.

Just fresh from a day featuring a troubling interaction with a sterotypical troubled loner with a notebook covered with stereotypical troubled loner Marilyn Manson graffiti about killing and shooting everyone. I was gracious because the boy is in his third school in three years and needs to get his feet on the ground, but I had to be pretty heavy that this sort of thing isn’t going to be overlooked. Ah the real world. So good to be back in the BHT.

MTV is a house of idiots. It is a post-modern asylum, and the strange thing is that the people who run it want exactly what you saw last night. All the chaos and hypocrisy and raw stupidity. That is the MTV they have designed and sold to us. Michael Jackson is their freak as much as ours. They have no award for him, they only want the bizarre reaction to the whole rouse. Brittney isn’t a singer, she’s a presenter. Eminem isn’t an artist, just an outraged pig. The audience isn’t Hollywood, it’s people defending Moby and the sanctity of women. There are no depths to this because it is all planned. I wrote about it long ago. Respectashockability.

RonH/Gregory: I am more concerned about becoming a skeptic than I am a heretic. I really view propositional truth outside of scripture with an increasing amount of disdain. I have to live in the real world, but the people who are making the real world happen do not impress me. I am in real danger of seeing all hard science as a form of delusion onthe way to idolatry. I have to accept certain propositions in my worldview in order to live, but when I hear terms like “history” and “science” used by Christians, I dig a foxhole and crawl in. I could not agree more that ultimately the only truth we are given is Christ, who by his very existence illumines our lives. John 1:1-5, 1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 And that light shineth in the darkenesse, and the darkenesse comprehended it not. The closer I come to the end of life, the more I realize I know nothing apart from Jesus. I imagine that at the end of it all, I may be surrounded by every kind of scientific “Truth,” but what will matter? Christ and Christ alone.

JimN: A wonderful family experience for you. Do you have children? How do they relate to their Arab heritage? Has your wife experienced any ugly incidents since 9/11?

SHOCKING NEWS:Michael Jackson may not really be the artist of the millennium.

I sat through one full hour of the MTV VMA’s. I want my hour back. Seriously, it was the most self-righteous self-congradulatory collection of no-talent has-beens wanna-be musicians in one room since… well, since the last VMA’s.

Highlights in the hour I watched: James Brown (hah!), Mary J. Blige (marking the first time “Jesus” has been spoken from an MTV pulpit without it being considered “bleepable”), Britney Spears (she didn’t sing – what a highlight).

Lowlights: The other 54 minutes.

Thankfully, CSI came on at 9pm, so my evening wasn’t completely ruined.

RonH: Amen.

I did not vote for you as “Most Heretical”. Sorry.

Jim N: An Arab dispensationalist?! It may take me the rest of the weekend to wrap my brain around that one.
Michael S: According to my buddy who just got back from a job in Riyadh, the Saudis actually hate, (in ascending order from least-hated to most-hated), Saudi’s below their class, non-Saudi Arabs, non-Arabs, Americans, Jews.

Gregory: Thanks for the MTV news. Now that I know that Michael Jackson is “Artist of The Millenium,” I can safely avoid listening to pop music for the next 98 years.

MichaelS: I was baiting you a bit. My own views on interpretation get me into lots of trouble. For example, I’ve argued that 1 Cor 11 shoudn’t be viewed as setting the pattern for modern communion observance; Paul was writing to correct a specific problem in Corinth, and while the pattern he lays out is sound, the circumstances for requiring the pattern don’t exist today. (I’ve been run out of town more than once for saying that if you’re going to take Chapter 11 as “the way” to do communion, then you’d better read the whole chapter and pass out hats to the ladies. [aside to Greg: I noticed that only a few of the bachellorettes had head coverings.])

(Come on, guys, I was kidding. Please, put down the wood and matches. I’ll kiss the pope’s ring. Let’s not take all this “priesthood of the believer” stuff seriously. )

RonH: My wife is from Syria. She came over when she was 17, so her schooling was all over there. They study the normal school subjects: History, Science, Math, Home Economics, The Koran, Marksmanship, Gun Repair, Hatred for Jews, etc. As a Christian (Orthodox), she was “excused” from religious education and allowed to stand outside without a coat for an hour; after a few tries, she started attending class. She knows the Koran better than any moslem I’ve met. She makes the 2nd best humus in the world (her mom’s is better.) And yes, we eat middle eastern food most days. (If you meet her ever, don’t tell her that I looked at the bachelorette link.)

Her uncle is the pastor of the Arabic Baptist Church in Washington DC. Being related to an Arab dispensationalist makes for interesting family gatherings. He’s a good guy, though.

For those who are looking, MSN has released the 25 most elegible Hollywood bachelorettes. While many of them sport pagan tatoos, only three of them have been married before, and only one (that I know of) to a Scientologists.

Eminem get booed at the MTV awards. Now, what disturbs me here is the media seems to think he had it coming. It seems, in our society, that rude behavior is perfectly acceptable when someone does not fit the highly liberal hollywood mode, but rude behavior if the person does. It was an award show, guys. If Mr. Moby hates Eminem, that’s his bag, but at least have the freaking decency to let him complete his acceptance speech.

RonH: Are you saying that my viewpoint of lying being a sin is invalid, or just that you disagree with the general thrust of my argument? Just curious. While never condemned as strongly as items found in the Ten Commandments, the idea of Jesus being the Truth is a central core part. If a lie is the opposite of truth, it follows that lying is contra-God, much as light is the opposite of darkness (an oft used metaphor in the New Testament). In the examples chosen, there is no evidence that God’s blessing was given because someone lied; in fact, in the case of the midwives, it is explicitly stated that they were blessed because they feared God. The bible is quite open about the flaws of its heros of faith, yet God blesses each one, despite their fault. The core issue is faith, not whether or not someone stumbles.

When we move into the arena where lying can be justified, we have a very slippery slope in which human judgement becomes our guide rather than scripture. While the 1 Kings passage shows that God used a lying spirit, God works in ways I cannot even fathom. Why, for example, would he harden Pharoah’s heart, when he had the power to have Pharoah let the people go without any form of plague?

Now, just because I like a firestorm, I will make a suggestion why God often uses things like a lying spirit and hardening a despots heart. It is because God knows we have the free will to decide. The Jewish people needed the additional hardship to strengthen their faith. ducking as Michael fires one back

A summary of Master’s presentation can also be found here, with some audio I think. Here is the closing quote.

“From the Psalter all the way down to the Reformation, and through subsequent centuries, hymns have been clearly understood by the Lord’s people. They have lifted up the people of God spiritually and intellectually. They have expressed worship, and taught the great truths of the Word. The Bible first, and godly hymns second, have liberated generations from ignorance and naivety, teaching and articulating intelligent praise. Today, the new worship is pulling believers down to a level they have never known before.”

Here’s more: The audio of Dr. Masters, and several articles on specific questions about worship, instruments, etc. I feel the narrow minded Calvinist in me getting happy! And all on the day I am bringing in a band to do a concert tonight!

Morning all. There are no dogs in sight this morning and I heard several gunshots across the creek last night. Maybe the dirty deed has been done with a phone call. Hmmmm….

Jim: Just like anything else in Protestant Biblical interpretation, the boundaries of interpretation will vary greatly. I think the genre of history is normally used in what is presented to us as history. I would see the use of allegory in Kings-Chronicles as unsupported. On the other hand, if someone were to make the case that Jonah was a short story- and not historical- while I wouldn’t personally agree, I wouldn’t say they were heretical, based on the fact that I think the case could be made either way. (BTW, Jesus’ use of common conventions in refering to the Old Testament authors doesn’t convince me there might not be more going on in some passages.) But in my opinion, the case that Jonah is short story based on a historical event is stronger. My point is that God may have chosen to inspire either genre for his purposes. So I have moved the focus of the BIBLICAL revelation to the Bible, and I am letting HISTORICAL revelation be another matter entirely. I may be wrong, but I do not believe the Bible gets its authority from its proximity to history (which is very real and accurate, but is also a modernist way of seeing reality.) I think it gets its authority from God.

Jack: Hanson is brilliant and has always done his homework. He has cogently made the point that the whole Arab world will do nothing but bark if we act like the superpower that we are and do the right thing. Jonah has said repeatedly that if every Arab country got together (impossible) to take us on we would whip them in two weeks. And lest we forget, a democratic regime in Iraq will change the whole middle east. Is anyone surprised the Saudis and the rest of the dictators are against it? HA! Last thing those despots want is democracy in the neighborhood. Only 2 Muslim countries have Democratically elected governments. Are we really supposed to take the press releases of the rest seriously?

Some of our best discussions have been on worship (Hi Rob.) I found an article on the Metropolitan Tabernacle (Spurgeon’s Chruch) site that is just wonderful. I encourage everyone to get it, print it, read it, keep it.The absolute best case against much of contemporary worship’s values and approach, and laying out the case for Biblical Reformed worship simply and clearly. The writer is Pastor Peter Masters. (Go over there and hear him Jack. I would love to know if the Tabernacle has crowds again. I hear they do. And if you do, there is a book I want and would gladly pay you to get for me!)

And now for something completely different…
I just read Why Arabs Lose Wars and must say thanks to whoever recommended it. As an expat in England, I am fascinated with the ways other cultures think. I am currently working on a White Paper for Americans doing business in England. You wouldn’t think two cultures so apparently similar would be so radically different, but in many ways, the English are nearly as “alien” to America as the Arabs. Here’s a killer article by Victor Davis Hanson on the European view of America. Hanson’s opinions almost exactly mirror my own. In fact, after I wrote most of my piece, I stumbled onto his and was shocked at how similar our findings have been. (Gee, maybe I’m right!)

Back to the Arabs. If the analysis by de Atkine is to be believed, then the US has Zero chance of inflaming the whole Arab world by attacking Iraq. I’m neither a military expert nor a skilled politician, but de Atkine’s analysis fits with what I have observed. I suspect a unilateral attack on Iraq by the US would lead the entire Arab world to rise up in violent verbal condemnation, followed immediately thereafter by… absolutely nothing. If these people cannot trust their own tank crews with a training manual, there is no way in hell they will ever unite against anyone, even “the Great Satan”. Their ingrained cultural biases against such action are simply too strong.

I’m shagged out from running all over creation today, but one thing from Ron’s Quote of Frye got me going:

When the apostle Thomas demanded visible and tangible evidence for the Resurrection, he was told that he would have understood the Resurrection more clearly if he hadn’t bothered with it.

Wait a minute. Jesus made the point that there were blessings on those who didn’t need visible confirmation, but He had just provided that confirmation to Thomas. If Thomas would have been better off without the proof, then why did Jesus give it to him? For that matter, why does Paul appeal to the eye-witness accounts of the resurrection? I mean, the resurrection is the point. Otherwise, we can all just be nice to each other, and skip all that stale crackers and grape juice. I think the real lesson of the Thomas incident is that Jesus met Thomas where Thomas needed to be met.

I agree that there are parts of the bible that are not of the literary type we call “history.” But there are other parts that are clearly presented as historical accounts. Luke 1 and 1 John 1 come to mind. I promise to take the poetry as poetry, but let’s take the history as history as well.

And if you’re going to throw out Jonah’s three-day excursion, how far do you go? 2 Kings treats Jonah as a historical person. Jesus treats the story of Jonah as literal – enough to cite it on several occasions.

Matthew: I, too, am glad for the impending strike. Maybe the networks will finally begin to cover cheese racing in the manner that it so richly deserves.

On the Beer topic, Saranac has released their Octoberfest. I’ll be busy for the next few days.

Being that this is Clay County, I can only assume that the 22 is to protect yourself from the Mrs. :-)

I am debating whether to shoot a dog in the neighborhood. A neighbor’s dog is in heat and this big stray chow has taken up with her. Tonight the chow attacked my Scottie while Noel was walking him. A few cuts, but my dog was OK. So I called the boss and said its gonna be your guy doing the shooting or me, but the dog is history. (We have a staff member who enjoys this type of thing.) Now Mrs. Spencer says no shooting in the neighborhood. Being as this is a Biblical marriage, I am loading the .22 as we speak. Update and film at 11. I give the dog 24 hours.

RonH: Well just be glad that we aren’t spiritual enough to feel the need to financially support you. First let me say that I am happy to be in the presence of another H-man. You are on track- if my evaluation matters. And your quote is excellent- really excellent. I inherited hours of Noah’s Ark videos long ago. The entire business seemed to be a frantic quest to find some distorted photo or bizarre tale to finally prove the Bible is TRUE. Friends, I am not looking for proof. It is self authenticating because God inspired it. So I don’t care what you find on Arafat or Ararat or whatever it is. Same with the Ark of the Covenant and the rest. (There are some WEIRDOs out there on these topics.)

History is yet another over-confident modern discipline. An invented way of thinking and looking at information. To say that “history” must verify the Bible is a no go for me. Historians can say yeah/nay or whadaya say but the TRUTH of scripture is true. I don’t care about the modern egghead adjectives you put in front of the word: historical truth scientific truth medical truth evidential truth media truth truth on film psychological truth theological truth Donahue truth Harvard truth and on and on. Scripture is true. Self verifying. God said it true. I ABSOLUTELY believe it is chock full of non scientific and non historical and non literal material and to twist it to become that is wrong. W.A. Criswell wrote a book called “Why I Preach the Bible is Literally True.” The sad thing here is that what may need to be said about the rez or the miracles or Adam/Eve can’t be said about so much else. Why I believe and preach the Message of the Bible is True is a better book.

Well, it’s official. The BHT hat is nothing but bad luck if you want to catch any trout on the Cumberland River. I was there from 6am-4pm and didn’t catch a thing. I wore the hat the entire time.

I’m so glad baseball is about to strike so that we can get on with a real sport like football. I used to love baseball. I have a close relative who is in the Hall. Now, I hate it and especially Bud Selig who wants to contract the 1stplaceintheALCentralMinnesotaTwins instead of that joke he calls a team up in Milwaukee. Of course, he used to own the Brewers (I think his daughter does now) and one of his best pals is Carl Pohlad, owner of the Twins and man most likely to make a TON of cash if MLB folds the Twins. Bart, Bud Selig said (allegedly) that Scots are a bunch of gay pantywaists. His address is 245 Park Ave. 31st Floor, NY, NY. Go get him!

Scott: I really like cats, personally. They taste like chicken.

Jack: Or was that BerNICE or EuNICE, as both are in the bible. I was following the metaphor. While the word “nice” is never used directly, many of the definitions of nice are concepts in the proper biblical attitude taht a Christian should possess: kindness, polite, virtuous and pleasing come to mind off-hand.

RonH: I was joking. You knew that didn’t you?

The following rant brought to you courtesy of our man in Texas, who has prodded me with a stick. (Absolutely no hostility intended in this rant towards anyone on the blog.)

I have never really understood what is the problem with my view of scripture. I am just arrogant enough to say that anyone who refuses to consider the literary nature of scripture is purposely choosing to misread and misinterpret. That is not saying everyone has to agree with me on my conclusions. But for the life of me I cannot understand how any fair exegete says “Well, this is the Bible so all that matters is that God said it and it’s true.” That is extremely disrespectful to the text. God inspired it as it is, and what it is is always some kind of literature. Poetry. Narrative. Parable. Proverb. Drama. Journal. Liturgy. Song. History. Gospel. Letter. Apocalypse and so on. (Maybe it’s that word: ERIC!!!!!! help. Is that it?) Is someone going to say that this is irrelevent? It’s irrelevent that Psalm 23 uses poetic imagry? We can’t risk acknowledging that because good grief someone might think it’s not true? We can’t say Revelation is Apocalyptic because well it might not be true? We can’t say that the Prodigal Son is a story because it might not be true and WE ALL KNOW OF COURSE that God COULD NOT CHOOSE to inspire a story that didn’t really happen in order to convey his truth. OK- WHY NOT? Why not? Why can’t God inspire any kind of literature he wants? Why can’t the Gospel accounts of Jesus’ words be literary creations and not tape recordings and STILL be true? Why can’t parables be parables and poems, poems, and songs, songs?

This all reminds me of some view of inspiration that says if the Bible doesn’t contain all the information necessary to flying a 767, it’s not inspired. Or the creationists who are always looking for proof that the Bible really doesn’t have a primative cosmology, but actually teaches everything modern science has discovered long before science did. Hello? I don’t get it. If it’s prescientific or poetic or partial or illustrative or anything less than comprehensive and literal, OK. Can’t God work with this?

Where does it stop? It stops with the reasonable conclusion of what the text is as it was written and meant to be understood in its time and place. If someone tells me that Psalm 23 is a story of a man who turned into a sheep, I say he’s gone too far. And if someone tells me Genesis 1 is a science book, I am going to say that (in my lowly worthless opinion) they’ve gone beyond a reasonable literary evaluation. If I want to say that stars don’t really fall from the sky (hyperbole) and that I shouldn’t cut off my hand (hyperbole) and Herod doesn’t have four legs and a tail (metaphor) I am not demeaning scripture but trying to take it seriously.

Some reactions to me on this are typical of a kind of fundamentalistic Biblicism that says ANYTHING that tampers with the individual’s modernist scientific view of truth in favor of any other view of truth is heresy. A biology book is true. A love note is not. An engineering schematic is true. A child’s watercolor is not. OK. OK. Fine. But I’m not buying that one. I am going to do my best to make a reasonable judgement about literary type and work with that right alongside the meaning of words, etc. (Maybe that is it: all the focus on translating words we just never stopped to talk about the bigger picture.)

Someone throw me an IBC. ;-) This felt good.

Every so often, when you begin to lose your faith in the process, the system works and the right thing happens. This, in my opinion, is one of those instances. His speech in court is truly horrific.

The fact that Eminem is a crass, vile, selfish, whinner good with rhymes and beats does not make me evil. The fact that his music is on MTV and in the stores does not make me evil. If I listen to it, and I am not revolted, but attracted and enthused, the evil is clearly in me. If I act out those feelings, it is proof I am evil. These guys are simply Romans 1 with a sound system.

Judson: We’ve heard this one before. Got to be a heartbreak for the people working on these projects.

I do not consider Ron’s post to be anything but a literary construct. In fact, Ron’s existence is absolutely irrelevent to me, as he is merely a character in my blog. Tomorrow, I may conclude he is a symbol for the doctrine of supralapsarianism.

RonH: You are making my ears ring. I am grinding my teeth. Why is this happening? I’m turning into a….a….H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eric: You are supposed to have young college girls in the office. Not burly guys. Just thought I would let you know. And send the donuts here….With the Faulkner piece…..PSYCH!

I think Ron H is calling you out, Michael. Or should I say, HARRY.

Eric: You may be right, but I didn’t have my Chronicles of Narnia close at hand; I was working from memory.

Jack, I too love the Lewis quote you used, but isn’t it “Is he safe?” rather than “Is he tame?” Splitting hairs, I suppose, but I’m a literalist (a cross I crucify my own self on often).
Another passage on the whole lying thing that’s always bothered me is the story of Rahab the harlot. I asked my preacher about it when I was ten (he was a nice but obsolete 70-ish man who mowed his yard in long sleeves in 100 degree weather), and he told me I was being a trouble-maker. Hmm. Maybe he was right.
On the Krispy Kreme issue: I am not a sweets-eater, but yes, when I partake of a donut, I prefer a Krispy Kreme-type. I say type because here in Madisonville there is a local donut place called Golden Glaze that makes them just like (or better than) KK’s (very similar to Mennonites, Michael).
Imagine a hypothetical: a short, pudgy English instructor (5’7’’ 230) has to tell a huge college freshman sporting pythons on his arms so big that he could crush said short pudgy English instructor’s head like a bloated grape without elevating his heart rate that he has to drop back to a remedial class. Imagine that fun hypothetical and you have a pretty decent picture of my day.
Back to the drawing board.

Gregory B: Larry Boy is correct. God says we should be nice to people. God never said we should be nice to deer, rabbits, bear, greenpeace activists, or any other reasonably tasty meat.

Although the activist would be a mite stringy, I would think.

I keep trying to ignore this thread, and it won’t go away, so…

Gregory B: Where, pray tell, are we “commanded to be nice”? Merciful, yes. Forgiving, yes. Slow to anger, yes. But “nice”? I don’t think so. I don’t want my sons to be nice, I want them to be godly.

I’m sick of “nice”.

I am reminded of the question Lucy asked about Aslan before she had ever met Him:

”..But is he a tame lion?”
“Tame? Heavens no, child. He’s not tame. But He is good.”

That’s the kind of men I want to be around. Men who are not tame. Men who are not safe. But men full of the goodness of God. Like this guy.

Jim: One cannot truly understand grace without understanding the depraved nature of human beings, including themselves. I will have to study the 1 Kings passage, in context, to get a better idea of what is going on. As far as the Matthew passage, I have no problem with that. Jesus’ message, to me, is that we are incapable of truly understanding without God. I know that I get much more from my bible study when I pray before hand (although some psychiatrists may say it is just state dependent learning ;->).

With parables, the person truly seeking the truth will find it. Others will find a nice little story, but get no meaning out of it. God wants us to desire to be with Him, so the idea that he would use riddles, of sorts, to hide the meaning for those who did not really desire, is not a problem. If they heard the message plain, they would still not have any desire.

I am not sure how to answer the Larry Boy question. I believe we are commanded to be nice, but we also notice that a man is expected to protect his family. While the dictate is primarily spiritual, the concept is there. If I had perfect faith, I would not need a weapon, as I would have faith that God would physically protect me and my family. I would let your child know that daddy does not intend to go out and be mean with his gun, but he wants to make sure everyone is safe from bad people. If you need to relate to Veggie tales, say the gun is a lot like David’s sling that he used on the Big Pickle.

Michael: I do not believe music is to blame for people’s actions. I do, however, believe that a steady diet of garbage turns one into a trashman. The fault here is the parents for not paying attention to what the child was listening to and having a conversation about it (at the very least). From a scriptural point, we are evil and the only good inside us is that spark of righteousness that comes from Jesus. The world, which is trying to pychoanalyze bad people and find the proper demon (music, television) that can be exorcised (without stomping first amendment rights, of course), wants to believe we are basically good and there are just some that have twisted minds. It seems the more we buy into this, the worst the world gets. The media, then, feeds on the bad news and churns it out, ad nauseum. Apologies for stealing your links.

JimN: You are getting around to one of the hills I frequently die on around here. In my opinion, evangelicals are woefully behind on the literary appreciation of scripture, and your citation of the parables is one of the examples I frequently use. I believe the story of the Prodigal son is fiction. In fact, I think most of the parables are stories Jesus made up. I also believe they are inspired and that they convey the truth that God inspired them to convey. Proper exegesis should include identification of literary genre, and then playing by the rules of that genre. Poetic language, story-telling, parable- all these are large parts of the Bible and they should be respected within their genre and not forced out. (I made it through that paragraph with no reference to Genesis 1-3. Good for me.)

You also cite good examples of the fact that total truthfulness is not automatically virtuous. The uses of truth or less-than-truth (sounds like a Bunyan name) have to be considered. God is sovereign and all things serve him and his glory, even ultimately, sin itself.

Gregory: You posted two stories I wanted to post today. I may write something on the notion that music and art can be held responsible for the actions of those who listen or view. Very much antithetical to the views of scripture, at least in regard to origins of behavior. We are so convinced that insie we are really good people and all the bad stuff is out there somewhere, to be sued.

Gregory:: We’re in agreement. I just have this knee-jerk reaction to discussions about sin; every time it happens, I want to say, “ok, we all know about sin – we’re in it all the time. Sin is boring. Let’s talk about grace.” Before we put this “lying is sin” stuff to bed, though, I’d like to throw out two passages that have always troubled me. in 1 Kings 22, God appears to condone a “lying spirit” sent to the prophets to convince Ahab to attack Aram. (I know, it’s worded such that God doesn’t order the spirit to lie, and Ahab certainly was lined up for a fall, but it still bothers me some.) The other problem I have is with parables. Is a lie an intentional falsehood? or does it cover speech that intentionally obscures the truth? (Remeber the old “Does your dog bite?” “No” ... “I thought you said he didn’t bite!” “That’s not my dog.” joke) The problem for me here is that Jesus intends to obscure the truth of his message from at least part of his audience (cf Matthew 13:13

I’m probably beating a dead horse with all this, though. Isn’t it weird how our kids bring up these sort of things? My 5-year-old recently said this to my wife: “Larry-Boy says that God wants us to be nice to people. So how come Daddy has a gun?”

Ron: Sorry, I missed your response earlier. The really scary thing for me is, I’m reading an article about Arab military culture, and I’m starting to understand things about my wife that have always puzzled me. The whole section on maintenance, for example; at the risk of sounding racist, I’ll make the observation that many of the Arabs I’ve come into contact with don’t really “get” the idea that certain devices have to be “cared for” to preserve their usefulness.

Just a couple of notes from today’s news:

A homosexual boy has won a $451,000 settlement for school officials allowing others to beat him up. Now, I agree that this should not happen, but, in Tennessee, a 5 year old who gets beaten up by 6 year olds (they hold them back so they will be better football players) is told he is too young to be in kindergarten and should wait a year. I am also interested if the homosexual issue was not involved if this would have ever settled.

Linda Blair, step aside, we now have a real demon daughter. Now, I am not sure which disturbs me the most here: 1) the fact a mother would lock her kid up for a lengthy period of time, or 2) the statement “Regardless of your belief system, it’s still abuse to lock your kid in a closet”. Does this mean if you tell your kid, “get in that closet again and I will lock you in,” and you do it for a short period of time, the child should call the cops? Now, what other things are child abuse. Is forcing a kid to sit in a chair for a time out child abuse? How about forcing them to eat their brocolli, or carrots? My child would testify that she is being abused.

I just thought this one was funny. A man, finding out a neighbor had sodomized his nephews, branded him in the genitals and buttocks with a hot spatula. I would have a hard time serving up pancakes after that one.

And, music is once again to blame for some kid acting up. My own activities can be blamed on worms in President Clinton’s brain that talk to me through my car engine, but that is another story. ;->

Jim: I think you will find that we are pretty much on the same track here. Paul tells us there are none worthy, that all have fallen short of the glory of God. In one of my previous blog posts, you will find that I stated the line that God draws is one between righteousness and unrighteousness, not good and evil. There are many “good” people that go to hell. The simple fact is none of us can go to heaven without the grace and mercy of God, given to us on the cross.

When I talked about lying, I stated that lying is always a sin. Just because someone is blessed for additional activities, or good comes out of the lie (human term good, not Godly), does not change the fact that the lie is a sin. Paul takes it to the nth by acknowledging anything that is not of faith is sin. If you lie to save your life, regardless of whether or not you are doing it because you feel you are helping others, it still has a certain lack of faith.

Now, as Michael pointed out, we must have compassion on those who have lied for the good of man. The reason for this compassion is multi-fold. First, we all are sinners. Second, God has shown great compassion to us and expects the same. Third, Jesus commanded it of us when he told us the first and second commandments. But, compassion does not mean we call sin something other than sin.

I look at everything like this (as much as possible in my fallen state). I may have 100 years on this earth. I have an eternity to look forward to after. With so much riding on eternity, I have to keep my focus on God. When I do this, I treat people better because I see that each person is God’s special creation, whom he loves very much. I still have to stand up for the truth, which is part of acknowledging Jesus, but if my focus is on Jesus, I approach in a sincere desire to do what is best for others rather than judgement.

O Lord- be with him and protect him. (Hint: The guy in N.C. is pretty nice. The guys in Tennessee however….) You are a good man Jim. I would like those tickets for THIS tour if possible.

Greg: With respect to lyiing and the “greater good,” it feels to me like we’re skirting around the idea of “radical pervasive depravity.” The reason that there is “necessary evil” (which is an awful term, but it’s the best I can do at the moment) is that the whole system is munged. SIn isn’t just bad behavior; it’s like a cancer that has infected every part of this world. So, there are times when in order to achieve what we perceive to be good, we do specific things that we know God would not approve of. The important thing to remember is that our perception of good has nothing to do with what good actually is; “only God is good,” as Jesus said, and our “righteousness” is crap when set next to real, true good. The wonder of redenption is this: when God evaluates us, he chooses to look at Jesus rather than us. Steve Brown puts it well when he has God in heaven announcing, “You guys were all wrong, but I’ve talked to my Son, and He says you’re OK.”

Michael: The presbytery still hasn’t ruled whether the atonement covers sins such as listening to Bruce Springsteen. I’ll hold further response on that matter pending the ruling. However, just because I’m in New Jersey doesn’t mean I’m of New Jersey. If people ask where I’m from, I usually send them here. That’s where my heart is, and is the land where my fathers are buried. Of course, with global warming and all, I may end up in Greenland just to stay cool. I hope they have enough bandwidth to let me stay in this ship of fools.

I’ve been as far south as Florida (once, but it was really weird.). My most positive impression of the Confederacy was in eastern Tennesee (I almost went to Covenant College, and I visited Knoxville years back.) I detested NC – I was in Gaston (sp?) and also have been to Ralieigh (I before E, except…) – but haven’t been there long enough to justify my opinion.

The first IM update in three weeks has finally made it up. Jack’s essay on the law of God- with his extensive reply on the slavery issue- and a piece by me on silly Christianity.

Michael: If one could put forth an argument that there are cases where one HAS to lie (ie, there is no way a reasonable person could find another way to accomplish the act without lying), then I would state that you might have a case on the necessity of lying. As we are all sinners, we have to look apon compassion for those, like the midwives, who chose to lie to avoid dire consequences. Not everyone has the strength necessary to stand up and die for the cause.

As for Cassie Bernall. One interesting note is another person said the same thing as she is reported to have said. The girl, who was shot, but did not die, has gone largely unnoticed. Now, I was not there, so I do not know what Cassie said or did not say, but one could put forth an interesting argument that the two characters were mixed. Of course, Cassie makes a better statement, as she actually died, while the other was only shot.

I would tend to believe that a God full of mercy will certainly understand one who sins for the greater good. However, I also believe there is an accountability for what we do. Romans 3 is the section that gets me a little in ire over cheap grace. Too many modern “Christians” use grace as a covering for things they intend to do any way, which greatly cheapens grace.

As far as the original topic, I believe the issue was whether or not lying was a sin, and not whether or not it was warranted. In the case of the midwives, I can picture myself lying to Pharoah, as well. What they did was very courageous, as the Pharoah might have taken their lives anyway. I think they rolled the dice that he would show more mercy if they did not appear to have a choice.

Jim: Welcome. I’ve got allies y’all.

Jack: Hey, I could play the part of DA BUS! (So long as it’s for one play, inside the twenty and I score a touchdown. The rest of the game will be spent on the sideline sucking down oxygen and eating KK’s until I puke).

Speaking of puking…Jake, when you did the 3 doughnuts, 2 quarts of milk, Tea Cups ride at Disney combo, which of the following expressions would best describe your condition?

An offering to the porcelain God(dess)
Barf
Barffalo Bill
Barking at the ants
Belch the Bile By-product
Bile Geyser
Blow a hole in the bowl
Blow Chunks
Calling Earl
Calling Huey on the big white telephone
The Call of the Walrus
Calling the Buffalos
Chorkle
Chuck a Veggie
Chumming
Chunder
Chunk eruption
Cleaning the pipes
Colon Explosion in Reverse
Delivering Street Pizza
Disembarking dinner
Driving the Porcelain Bus
Esophogeal Eruption
Evacuate all you ate
Feeding the fish
Five finger spray
Gastro Geyser
Going for the 2nd chew
Go the Nostril Sauce
Having an up and under
Heave
Honk
Hoark
Hurl
Hwark
Involuntary personal protein spill
Jazz up the carpet
Jettisoning the chunky cargo
Laughing at the ground
Launching lunch
Leggo my Eggo
Liquid burp
Liquid laugh
Liquid scream
Lose your load
Making your Big Toes go flat
Mouth crying
My cousin ralph
Oral diahorrea
Salad shooter
Spew
Spitting the furry lifesaver
Parking a tiger
Parking your groceries
Pavement pizza
Puke
Ralph
Reverse Defication
Reviewing your lunch
Review the menu
Ride the regurgitron
Rooping
Round-trip meal ticket
Selling a Buick
Shout at Your Shoes
Sicky
Singing New York
Snot the hotdog
Spill your Breakkie
Spraying a jet
Spray Puree
Technicolour Yawn
3-D Burp
Throwing it into reverse
Throwing your cookies
Throw the Brown Cow
Toss the Slack-Mac’s
Tossing your cookies
Turn on the tap
Unswallowing
Upchuck
Vom
Vommie
Vurp = a burp with a little vomit
Woof your Cookies
Yacking
Yark
Yawn a big bright chunky rainbow
Yodelling

I believe Gregory and I could write a book on our different approaches to ethical issues ;) Well said, but I still have to say that you are extracting and isolating the lie from the total act of compassion and protection and I personally can’t see that one. But you make an excellent case. Your use of Romans 3 brings into the picture a whole different subject libertine antinomianism. Indulging in sin wholesale with the demand that God forgive as proof of being gracious. I can’t imagine anything further from The Exodus example. And Proverbs 12:22 is obviously true when the only issue is lying, not protecting innocent life.

Would the analogy of killing in order to stop the murder of an innocent versus killing for reasons of pure malice make a difference?

They’re spitting on priests on the streets of NYC? Well, it could be worse. And in case anyone forgot...

OK. I predict it will happen, but it will be short. Maybe no more than a week. And the fans will not come back. Except the guys with the beer.

Man kills CIA programmed Guinea Pig.

Anyone interested in suing a porn mag?

ScottW: I may come to NC to find work.

Interesting story about David Hocking- who used to be an evangelical bigwig till he had a personal problem- preaching prophecy in Hawaii. I come under his anathema for saying the church is in and Israel is out.

Muslim fanaticism against women gets the attention of the press.

Ron: As to “act of disobedience,” I meant act of disobedience to Pharoah, not God. They were faithful to God, although they directly disobeyed Pharoah’s edict. God found them as faithful servants as they did not kill the children of Israel, as they were commanded. Their sin, the lie, however, is still a sin. Do you believe God would say, “since your lie brought someone to me, I will not count it as a sin.”

In answer to “Hello”? So, following the logic you put forth, Abraham stating his wife was his sister was not a sin for God blessed him and cursed the man who almost slept with his wife. Does this mean Abraham did not sin? So, as long as God blesses someone, we have to consider that everything he is reported to do is not sin? According to your lithmus test, it does. There are dozens of examples in the bible where a righteous man sinned, and God blesses him despite his sin.

If you read the passage of the midwives, you find that their righteousness hinged on the fact that “they feared God,” and not that their lie was considered righteous based on whom they lied to. Jesus did not tell us that acting certain ways to Christians was a sin, and to others it was not. He never stated that adultery was only a sin if our wife were a believer, but rather, that the sin was committed long before the act. In the same vein, the midwives, chosing to honor God by not killing his children, were blessed. They were not blessed for lying to a despot. There is a very key distinction here. So, your only other alternative, is not the only other alternative after all.

The tenBooms and Schindlers are not regarded as righteous for lying to the Nazis. It is our human necessity to categorize sin that makes us regard it this way. Righteousness does not hinge on a sin, or a group of sins, but on our complete faith in God. Jesus died for all of our sins, not just those committed against his people (meaning the jews). Jesus taught us that even the pagans will reward their own, while treating others badly (very loose paraphrase) and commanded us to a higher standard.

I will stick to the point blank: All lying is sin, all of the time. It is not an unforgiveable sin (only blaspheming the spirit fits here), but it is sin. Regardless of the outcome.

Now, to Schindler and the tenBooms. One could argue that they lied because they did not have enough faith. But, wait, Greg, they could have been killed? Yes, that is a very temporarl viewpoint, to which I say “so what!” Earth is not our home. If we are lucky, we will spend a little over 100 years on this ball of dirt, but we will spend eternity in heaven. So what if we are killed for not committing a sin.

Whether or not God is able to use something and make good of it is inconsequential to whether or not it is sin. God used a jackass to tell Balaam he was doing something wrong. A righteous jackass? No, it was just an normal jackass. God then uses Balaam, although the new testament plainly tells us he was not a righteous man. So, the lithmus test is not whether or not God uses something or blesses someone as to whether or not individual acts are sin or not.\

Back to Miss Spencer. The midwives sinned by lying. In addition, they feared God (heart in right place for those who want simple theology), so they were counted righteous. Abraham sinned by lying about his wife. In addition, he feared God and had faith, and was counted as righteous. Lot sinned by getting drunk and paid the consequences with his daughters. In spit of this, Lot is counted as righteous. David sinned by coveting a man’s wife and killing him. In addition, David had faith and was counted righteous. Cassie Bernall chose to stand up and not lie. If she had lied, it would have been a sin. But, God would not have looked apon this individual moment to decide whether Cassie is to be regarded righteous or not. I am not even certain that she had regarded that lying might save her life, or not. But, even if she had realized that she might live by lying, would God have counted her unrighteous by lying of her belief? I would argue no.

Michael: How about Proverbs 12:22 “The Lord detests lying lips, but he delights in men who are truthful.”. Or, do I need to create a whole sermon on lying being a sin? Now, as to the question of whether one can sin and God’s glory increase, none-the-less, just consider Romans 3:5-8:

But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—”Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved.

In the case of the midwives, their lie was a sin. But, the act God was most concerned with, in their blessing, was the fact that they disobeyed a despot and obeyed Him. He regarded them righteous for “fearing God” and not because lying was not a sin.

Springsteen tickets will be just fine.

I have been reading JimN’s weblog. It’s very well done. There is only one problem. Jim is from New Jersey. But I have a plan.

As you know, at present, our Yankee contingent is Michael Birch, who is a resident of Ohio but is being held in a confederate prison for his own safety and Rev. Cooper, who resides in Ohio, but has spent enough time in Kentucky to become acculturated. A former member resided in Minnesota…..and then the only individual ever booted from BHT resided in Kansas (I think). Our recent Canadian experience speaks for itself. I think we can all see what is happening here.

How can we avert the inevitable regional hostility that has haunted our little board?

So, I suggest that JimN get everyone Springsteen tickets. This would indicate his willingness to lay aside the results of any past conflicts between regions of our country and be friendly. Do I have any other suggestions?

I have big news. The Spencer Family is going to be on television. You can read about it here. Autographs later.

JimN: The Beer commercial….the beer commercial…..cheese racing….cheese racing.

Bart: I hate protestors. Even those who agree with me. The only kinds I like are the ones who take the time to dress up in elaborate nonsensical outfits and heckle politicians. So go git ‘em. And as for NewsMax, any site that mixes news and ads (Newsmax and WND) is cheesy. I know they gotta make a buck, but you are so right. “The World will end tonight at 8. Buy this video and find out how.”

JackH: I will have you know that not only can I see my toes, I can see everything between my belt and my toes without a mirror. When you come back to the states and we all get together, the fat boys are going to remember your last post. (Angus never forgets) The ensuing demonstration of professional wrestling expertise will be noteworthy. Bring beer for the kids.

DVDs of “We Were Soldiers” and “Hamburger Hill” arrived today.

On a serious note- we have readers. Actually quite a few. I think we are like the Christian version of the Stern show, except instead of strippers we have naked fat guys eating Krispy Kreames. (BTW, speaking of such, where has Rigney been in this conversation?) One of our readers asked me to pass on a prayer request, so I am just going to print it entire. Please pray!

Mr. Spencer,

I read “The Boar’s Head” regularly. I’m not really wanting to post there, but I do have a prayer request that I’d like you to share if you would. Feel free to summarize as you see fit.

Please pray for my 12 year old son, Allen. When he was 3, he had a cancerous brain tumor removed. The Lord did some great and mighty things back then, and we were hoping never to have to go there again…..
But, on Thursday, Aug 15th, he had an MRI and a new tumor was found. He had surgery on the 19th and came home on the 22nd. Surgery went well and he’s doing great. Again, the Lord has really blessed…..right down to giving us Christian roommates while in the hospital with whom we could pray and fellowship.

We haven’t got the pathology report back yet, but they believe it’s the same type of tumor as before; and if so, they are considering further treatment (probably radiation).

There was a risk with both surgeries that his vision and reading ability would be affected. This did not happen….Praise God…..he loves to read. There is also this and other risks with radiation. (He did not have further treatment when he was 3 because he was too young.) We will find out Sept 3rd whether he will need further treatment or not.

Please remember him in prayer.

Thank you,
Betsy Rushing

Krispy Kremes in TX: Things may be bigger in Texas… but they’re better down Carolina way…

Bart: I’ve got a better idea… Just paint your boulders red, white, and blue and give them a toss.

Ron H: The last time a father and son set of rulers (Western history here, I’m a little shaky with African and Eastern) was George V and George VI of Great Britain, who both fought in France and Germany in World Wars. If that doesn’t really count, at the very least, you’ve also got all the wars between France and England

Hi.

The only place I can get Krispy Kremes is at a rest stop on the Garden State Parkway. They are always stale. “Baked Fresh Daily” must be some secret code in Pakistan.

I’m 6’0”, 238lbs. That’s down from 270 as of May 31st this year. How did I do it? To learn the secrets of weight loss using my “PTPA” techniques, you’ll have to wait until I can turn it into a multi-level marketting scheme.

I hate football. But then again, I’m arthritic. Tomorrow, I turn 41. When I grow up, I want to be an Amish farmer.

The best meat I’ve ever had came from a Halal (that’s Jihadish for kosher) store in Paterson, NJ. You go in the back and pick your lamb. (Yes, they are alive when you pick them.) Then you go up front, and about 15 minutes later, you have a lot of meat that needs to get into the freezer.

I’m married to an Arab, so my theological sympathies tend to run against people with charts tucked into Revelation in their Bibles. But I’m a realist, too. I found one guy’s opinions about