The Jesus Museum. Gotta try this.

Agreat first person article by Condi Rice describing her own faith journey . Really very good. Worth reading and passing on.

Hey, I may not have much to say when it comes to theology, but when it comes to crispy cream doughnuts and sex with cows, I’m right there, baby.

Yes, Ronald, I really appreciate your words to Michael Birch. I know he needs our encouragement ;-)

I am 5 foot 10.5 and 260. Of course, like most men, I struggle with bloating once a month.

AAAAAMEN! Umm Umm Um. Preach it, brother. Preach it . . .

Nope – 3mph is NOT a joke. There are many days when I could get to work faster by walking than driving.

As a guy who lost 60 lbs in a little over a year on a high protein diet (then gained back 15 by just wavering a bit!) and is now on a low-fat diet, I was very interested in the current TIME cover on the state of research into Atkins vs Ornish and the research on weight loss in general. My sources tell me that the 60 I lost was primarily muscle and the replacement weight is fat. That matches up with my experience. I experienced a lot of high protein benefits in my overall feelings and condition, so I know the insulin connection was the real deal, but I just couldn’t see ingesting that much fat as a percentage of my diet for the rest of my life, so now I am doing 13% calories from fat and doing OK, though I no longer have all that sludge to eat without a guilty conscience!

Hey Jack- 3 mph on the streets of London? Surely this is a joke.

On the lying thing: I find myself in remarkable, almost giddy, agreement with RonH (which makes up for my lack of enthusiasim for Rep. Paul ;) I’m not going to haul out the BW5 and do the road work, but I have a feeling that there are many many acts of less than total candor in the cause of good and God in the Bible. I agree that the midwives are commended, and that may be because my premise question separates out lying from the total action here, which is quite artificial. The “lying” is part and parcel of saving the lives of innocents and resisting tyranny. It isn’t a mixture of good and evil it is an act of good.

One must think of Bonhoeffer and the German resistance. The “ethical compromises” were on the stage of a great play called “Defending Humanity from a Monster.” Nuff ‘said. I am reminded of an observation about the philosopher Spinoza, who in his universal ethic of obligation said that, Yes, one was morally obligated to tell the truth to a drooling, ax-wielding madman asking for the location of your children’s bedrooms. Uhhhh…I think not.

Dr. Laura frequently says that total honesty is often cruelty and that is wrong. “Did you know that your hair is blue grandma?” “So, really puttin’ on the weight since last year, Ralph.” Truthfulness has to be in the context of what is loving and right. For its own sake, it can be hurtful.

RonH: I am not sure anyone is willing to say that our martyrs must be packaged by Christian publishers in order to be recognized, but heck, I will. There are hundreds of martyrs around the world that don’t have the benefit of Christian promoters plugging their books. Don’t get me wrong- I think Bernall’s life was not wasted and I disagree with those who would find her a fool. But I think her situation was a matter of realizing a simple fact- I am about to die and how do I want to go out? She choose well in my opinion.

Movie: Animal House. Bart is already a member and it’s why he’s not saved at Two Rivers.

Bart: Hope you git religion real good. These guys don’t preach Christ. They preach revivalism. They step into the role of God and talk to us all like a little Protestant pope with an earphone from God. They think they are the Holy Spirit, the 67th Word from the Lord and a Jihad all in one. If we don’t kiss their ass, we aren’t responding to God. Puh-Leeze. Send this guy to someone who needs him- like Rigney. Or buy him a beer.

I wish 54% of them lived somewhere else. It’d certainly make getting anywhere a lot easier.

I saw this morning on CNN that in a survey, 54% of Brits said they wish they lived elsewhere in the world. What do you think, Jack?

I am currently unable to be ordained in the Church of Beer. I think their server’s having problems – someone must’ve spilled a Coke in it.

Church Movie? Ace Ventura. Some of the collected sayings of St. Ace:

AAaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllrighty then…
That’s none of your business and I’ll thank you to stay out of my personal affairs.
If I’m not back in 5 minutes – just wait longer.
Well, I’m not ready for a relationship, Lois, but thanks for asking.
It is the mucous that binds us.
Your request is not unlike your lower intestine: stinky and loaded with danger

You are now enlightened.

My “Church” Movie? The Addiction for my thesis and Fight Club for my antithesis.
Lying is not proscribed by scripture. Being double minded is proscribed, bearing false witness against your neighbour is proscribed, but lying is not. This one shouldn’t even be controversial.

Hello all. College is interesting from this side. In my 101 today, I actually saw two freshmen exchanging notes. Sheesh. You can take the kid out of high school, but I guess you can’t take the high school out of the kid…for a while, anyway.
Hey, Matthew: does that guy having sex with a cow remind you of anyone in a Faulkner novel? At least in this case no one was paying anickel or whatever to watch (that we know of anyway).
Movie into religion: Raising Arizona: “Gov’mint do take a bite, don’t she?”
Bart, I knew you weren’t saved to begin with. When I met up with you in NasVegas you were wearing shorts and drinking beer. Hell-bound heathen. You should consider yourself lucky (oops, pagan word) blessed that that dude came to your church.
Gregory: You state that lying is a sin, but you don’t back it up with Scripture, which I believe is what was called for. Mind you, I am not yet taking a side on this one—I’m just interested in the debate and would like to hear your argument. I think Ron H made an interesting one and I’d like to hear more people chime in on the matter.

Hey guys! I just want everyone to know that Ken Freeman is preaching a revival at my church. I have discovered that I was not truly saved; That I have not Truly repented; And that (since I can’t remember it) that I have had no REAL salvation experience. My life has been changed. I have also come to belive (as pre Sensei Freeman) that if the church was truly in repentance, we would change and adapt to suite the times. I say more dancin’ in the isles! Raise those hands! smack someone you care! later guys, I running out to purchase the latest Michael W. Smith album. By the way, you guys need to reconsider your salvation. It may not be real.

The only real odd thing is, he never said a word about the blood sacrifice and atonement provided by grace through Christ…hmmm…odd. Well on my way to LifeWay!

Michael: Maybe I need to up my idol worship a notch, but I have yet to see a movie that offers enough substance to become a new religion. Maybe when “Everything I needed to learn I learned in kindergarten” comes out on the big screen, I will change my mind.

In the case of the midwives, they were wrong to lie to Pharoah about their deeds. They were correct, however, to not kill the Hebrew children, so God counted their act of disobedience as righteousness. The lie is still a sin. As for Cassie Bernall, lying to Dylan and Kleibold would have been a sin, as well. The only scriptural difference you could possibly make between the two, if you wanted to go legalistic, is Cassie would have been denying God if she tried to save her own life; the midwives would have been denying God if they chose to kill the children of Israel.

Scott: Tried to get ordained, but the site was messed up. Pity!

Judson: Macro-evolution is an extrapolation of micro-evolution. As there is no way to prove macro, by observation, extrapolation, while weak, is the best argument that can be put forth. Anyone who would argue against microevolution is a fool. We see adaptation of species over relatively short periods of time, both human and nature led.

While I tend to agree with you on the age of earth, I do not believe that there is any proof that it would take the millions of years to create crude oil, coal, etc. from peat bogs. Ample heat and pressure might, in fact, work. I tend to doubt it, but I have not seen a good proof against it. The problem is each side starts with an assumption and builds from there. With evolutionists, it is billions of years and a slow laying down of layers to, in this instance, create enough pressure.

Ron: God went to an awful lot of trouble to make it look old. Actually, mankind has gone to an awful lot of trouble to make earth look old, as it is man’s assumptions that lead us to believe that earth is old. While I cannot answer to the glacier issue, much of what we base our theories on require assumptions that cannot be proven. Radiometric dating, for example. Now, just to throw a monkey wrench into the arguement, we can start looking at the following.

1. Amount of salt in the sea. Following the rate of erosion, the sea should be too salty for life if the earth is as old as scientists state. This, of course, uses an assumption of a roughly even rate of erosion.
   
2. Amount of ozone in the atmosphere: Following the current rate, given to fluxuation, there is no way the earth, starting at 0, could be as old as it is stated to be. Once again, there is an assumption of a 0 starting point and a more or less even rate.
   

Now, these are scoffed at by scientists, who will more or less accept carbon dating within 100 years, as long as it has some other form of historical context. However, it has been proven that the starting point (amount initially in a body) is not a constant (the amount has been increasing over the years). As such, the older the item, the more potential inaccuracy in dating. The problem is that we do not know. So, to support dating, we use historians and archaeologists, most of whom have been given their dates by research done with carbon dating. This leads to circular reasoning. In this, Morris is correct that the dates MAY be much younger, but his method of extrapolation to “prove” a young earth is greatly flawed. He, may, in fact, be correct, but bad science is bad science and arguing against bad science with more bad science … I think I have expressed the point.

I’m going to go right out and purchase my very own Ron Paul Bomb Shelter. It comes complete with gas masks, canned food, bottled water, a generator, a CC Radio, a DVD player, TV, a copy of the patriotic classic “Red Dawn”,and the entire Left Behind series on audio cassette.

Scott: I always find myself asking what google search you were doing when you come across these places? ;-)

So guys…If you were going to create a religion out of a movie, what would it be?

This story about the Jedi religion in Australia is kind of silly, but I think it proves a couple of things. One is that secular people are so starved for transcendence they will get it from anything- as long as it doesn’t involve God. The other is that the Australians are probably setting the pace for what post-modernity looks like. Keep an eye down under. I seriously do not think it at all odd that Hollywood would provide the fodder for the next wave of religious mythology.

Matthew: I read a lot on Islam this summer and have quite an accumulation of books. If you are ever looking for Bibliography material or something specialized (like a book by a Christian in a Muslim family) I have them. Would be interested in your continuing observations on the class. The World Chrsitian bookstore over at YWAM has a lot of titles.

My high school team mowed down opponents without mercy for most of half a century. I truly do miss that Friday night ritual. I’ve never been able to replace it.

RonH: I tend to think the Cassie Bernall business is a mixture of the noble and the exploitive. Let me say at the outset that I believe her to be a brave and noble young woman, and I hope I have her courage. But to move on, I may get egged for this but there is some question as to what happened. I have worked around kids too long to not be mildly skeptical of aspects of the entire story. There is also no doubt that Christian marketing and publishers run like ambulance chasing lawyers to any tragedy (Columbine, 9/11) to pursue their interests, which frequently includes embellishment. The moral issues here were complex. The early Christians went through a lot of soul searching during persecutions, but they also went through a lot afterwards, when they had to decide how to treat those who had lied about their religion or denied Christ to save themselves or their families. I am not one to see it automatically noble to tell a maniac that you are a Christian. Martyrdom can be a remarkable waste in some ways. If one is actually being persecuted for Christ and the choices are clear, then I think scripture is clear. But if a drunken or deranged idiot came into your house and said I am here to kill all the Christians would all of us go get them and line them up for a nice execution?

I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve finally found the right church to ordain me...

Cows - I think that story would be funnier if I weren’t in England. Over here, they would be outraged that the guy was prosecuted.
The Globe - Ahhhhh. You meant “go see some Shakespeare at the Globe”. Perhaps you didn’t know that touring the Globe is an event in itself. I’ve seen great buildings. I don’t think the Globe is one of them. But great plays… Excellent suggestion.
Football – American football, I mean. The Cardinals still suck. Did you know the Cards have won exactly ONE playoff game since the Sammy Baugh era? One! What did we do to deserve the Bidwells, huh? ASU looks like it’s gonna suck, too. You know you’re in a bad football town when the newspaper headlines the moral victories achieved in a loss.

Gonna be a loooong fall.

Maybe my son’s high school team won’t suck.

(I hate losing.)

I went to the bookstore today to buy the required texts for a class I am taking this fall titled “Missions to Muslims.” I’ve flipped through a couple of them, but the one I am really impressed with is a CD-ROM developed at Fuller called “The World of Islam: Resources for Understanding.” I’ve been playing with it all day. I realize that I’ve only had it for a few hours, but I recommend finding this disc and reading through it. Not all of us are called to be missionaries to Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Indonesia or Malaysia, but if the statistics are true that 1 in 5 people on this planet are Muslim then you won’t have to go far to be a witness for Christ to a Muslim person. I’m really excited about this class. My wife is going to take it also (as an auditor) even though she is apprehensive about the possiblility of moving to a country where women don’t have the rights that women in the West enjoy. Of course, like I told her, we could be missionaries to Muslims in Jonesboro, Arkansas. They’ve had a mosque there for as long as I can remember (they get a lot of Middle Eastern students at ASU). Anyway, if anyone cares I can tell you about the books we’re reading as we go along. You might decide to add a title or two to your library.

Mr. Birch receives a cold IBC on the house for “I’ve felt butter”- a pun for the hall of fame, and I would like to thank everyone for avoiding the word “angus” in their work. I assume Mr. Birch is watching the preseason match between the Browns and the Packers, so he may drink later.

Jack has sent me a nice piece on the Law of God, and I would love to print it on IM (since I am on strike until I get something from Rigney). How ‘bout it Jack?

Judson: The article on Boundless.com is really excellent. Thanks and recommend more.

While being led from the courthouse, a smirking Mr. Balderson could be herd softly repeating, “once you’ve had cow, you’ll forget about sow.”

When asked what she thought about the case, local PETA representative, Imma Marblehead, would only say, “At least he wasn’t eating them.”

During sentencing the defendant didn’t udder a word. Outside the courthouse, however, when asked by a reporter how he was feeling, the defendant simply responded, “I believe I’ve felt butter.”

I guess something with the words “rawhide” or “ground beef” in it would be out of the question.

I hope he at least remembered his leather glove.

Balderson Jr.: “We were thinking of putting dad out to pasture, but this is was a bit much…”
the neighbors: “We hired Mr. Balderson to put our cows out to pasture every evening, but this was a bit much…”
Mr. Balderson: “They’re the ones who told me that their cows put out!”

Michael: That last story was udderly disgusting.

I am looking for the worst PUN possible on this one. I’m buying for the winner. “S.A. Balderson, 81, was caught on a police surveillance tape wearing only a T-shirt, tennis shoes and sunglasses, going from one cow to another in a pasture. The prosecutor asks: “What do you do with an 80-something-year-old man who would do something like this?” (Fredericksburg.com)

OK. I’m tired of parenting. It’s your turn. All you guys with no teens or teens in the future get this one. Our Old Testament lesson yesterday was Exodus 1:8-2:10, including the stories of the midwives lying to Pharaoh. My daughter wants to know why they were not sinning when they lied to save the children (and later themselves), but Cassie Bernall would have been wrong to lie to Harris/Klebold to save her life (in the Columbine library)? Go get ‘em.

My whole family is at my son’s soccer game and I am stuck here working. Hope I get to make that up becaue it makes me feel like the world’s worst dad.

Jack: (Thanks- give me a couple of days on that.) I would go to the Globe to simply suspend this nonsensical world of post-modernity and return to a time when the power of the word was real. Shakespeare shaped the Western World more than anything other than the Bible, and I would most certainly add one night in Will’s company to my personal memories. I don’t think it is two hours you would regret. If you can get to one of the Big 4 (Hamlet, Lear, Othello or MacBeth) it will be much more worthwhile. Other good chocies: Midsummer’s, either Henry IV, Richard III, Tempest, R&J, JC. It’s two hours you won’t want back.

Judson: I love the LOTR movie, but that particular marketing ploy- which will strain our family’s usual domestic tranquility since my son will insist on buying the DVD again- is well…brilliantly capitalistic. I salute the greedy slobs.

Well, I have preached three times in chapel and I’m feeling OK. It takes me a while to get in the groove and I always look to see if it is starting to get stale or make me mentally tired. So far so good. No manuscript today, which is always like a high wire without a net for me.

You gotta love this. I only wish that the hunter had been me or some other redneck .

help- does anyone know the location on the web of any good responses to Thomas Friedman’s infamous article about “religious totalitarianism” (post 9-11)?

Ron H: I wish I had had enough time to go to Greenwich when I was there. Perhaps in the future. I still have dreams of swinging a hitch on the USS Constitution for one of my 2-week Navy drills… the sailing master there is a fellow Merchant Marine reservist and was rabid to get me up there to help take down her rigging for the winter, but my unit wouldn’t let me… something about “not relevant to the modern Navy”... pah… guess I will have to make do with my first love, the 1877 barque Elissa, until I can get enough time to do a non-pay drill (yeah right).

More Lord of the Rings info: in November, a special edition DVD will be released which will add 30 minutes to the original theater release. No details yet on exactly what will be included, but some scuttlebutt mentions some additional scenes in Lothlorien (the Fellowship receiving gifts from the elves). More poop over at theonering.net.

A terrific article from J. Budziszewski which touches on issues of reason, revelation and “fundamentalist creationism”. Excerpt…

“I would never speak against being biblical. What I criticized was biblicism.”

“What’s the difference? Do you mean taking the Bible too seriously?”

“Just the opposite. In my view, biblicists don’t take the Bible seriously enough.”

Jack: My answer to your political comments will probably be inadequate, because I do walk a line here. I agree with a lot of what I hear from you and RonH (is it a Texas thing?) and I would like less Federal government in every way. I think Waco and Ruby Ridge were Janet Reno debacles, and not characteristic of the FBI either historically or typically. I am a libertarian at heart, but it doesn’t grow out of a conspiratorial view of the Feds. While I think the expansion of Federal power is the nature of the beast, I don’t think the motives for that are X-filish. I have a tempermental resistance to a conspiratorial mindset. I tend to think human nature is just rotten. I am very Limbaugh-ish in that regard.

As to the “He doth protest too much” comment, my career as part of a community that has to enforce rules is coloring my interpretation. I listen to a lot of guilty people lie to maintain their innocence, and I have an admitted presupposition on how this works. You are very very right to point out that this guy is innocent until proven otherwise. Since I don’t have the link here, I don’t have all the facts at hand, but WITHOUT SAYING HE IS GUILTY I think there are some remarkable facts that need an explanation, not a lawsuit. When the whole picture is put together, yet it is circumstantial, and yes it is substantial. His behavior and appearance have radically changed with these press conferences, and his approach seems intent on portraying himself not as innocent factually, but as persecuted. In my experience, this is suspicious. Take this double teen murderer in Oregon. His first reaction was to go to the press and say he was being persecuted. Never answered the substantial questions about his relationships with the girls. Now they are digging them out of his back yard. So I will yield to your excellent points, but if I was his lawyer I would present exonerating facts, not keep saying SUE!

BTW, as one who works with teenagers for three decades, I am very aware of how a reputation can be destroyed and I have thought through how I would respond. That is part of my suspicion of this fellow. Wen Ho Lee is a much better example imo.

So, did anyone look up “gadzooks” yet?

Denise: I liked the Guinness book too. I’m looking forward to getting the next in the series. I have been reading a lot of great but really dry theological and apologetics books, and this one was a nice break- easy to follow, chock-full of great biographical stories and quotes. I hope it will help me be more sensitive to the “seeker” in people I meet- especially really important people, like my terrific wife.

Jack: I’ve heard about those “carnivals” in London. During a brief layover in London in 1994, I just happened to run across something along similar lines, but much more productive- the Great British Beer Festival. Similar crowds, and similar awful music, but at least there were barrels and barrels of ale and porter. For the most part though, I spent my entire time in the city at the classical wing of the British Museum…

Michael: Re: the suspected anthrax killer – why do you think he protests too much? Do you really think the Feds don’t persecute innocent people? I was living in Waco during the Branch Davidian slaughter. I drove to work past a hospital with FBI snipers positioned on the roof every day for two weeks. The Davidians were guilty of being fruitcakes, nothing else. The day the feds admit they slaughtered 80 innocent women & children because they didn’t like their attitudes is the day I start believing Hatfill is “protesting too much.” I don’t trust anything the feds say or do. Anything. Gee Dubya is no less prone to being absolutely corrupted by his absolute power than was Slick Willie. I’m glad it was George in the White House instead of Algore on 9/11, but I’m also glad the Dems have control of the Senate. A government completely in the hands of any one party is a terrifying thought.

And as long as I’m blowing off steam, all Republicans are stupid and all Demos are evil. That’s the only way I am able to tell ‘em apart. They govern identically.

One last thought: We had a horrific case here in the UK in the last three weeks. Two little girls snatched from thin air and found murdered two weeks later. The “authorities” have two people in custody currently. I have no idea whether they are guilty or not, but their lives are – for all intents and purposes – over . They have already been tried, convicted and sentenced in the press. If they are guilty, I want them drawn and quartered. I want their blood spilled out in public. I want the horror of what they did to be heaped back upon them. I want them to die slowly, painfully, horribly and publicly.

But they might not be guilty.

The US has a written Constitution and a written Bill of Rights because the founders wanted to unequivocally set down the limits of government. They were concerned that those with power would take the law into their own hands, raise themselves above it and then oppress those without power. England has the tradition of civil rights, but no written constitution to reference, so this kind of abuse of power – and let’s face it – it is nothing less than abuse of power – is more common over here.

We must remember that we too are evil lest in our bloodlust we condemn the innocent.

Landover Baptist is a scream. I found it about 2 years ago. I cannot believe they are still updating it. Of course, that’s actually slightly more believable than the mind-bogglingly stupid things real fundies do, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

Michael, ‘splain to me exactly why I want to go see a 20th century reproduction of a 16th century theatre?

Anyone else think that any Republican that doesn’t campaign loud and hard on the death penalty is a fully qualified member of the stupid party? I mean, this plague of child killings ought to put the liberals into full retreat and have every blood and guts conservative with a 20 point lead. If I were running for congress I would not shut up about the death penalty, immigration reform and cut the biggest drain on the economy- Federal spending.

Methinks the gentlemen doth protest too much.

Jack: You want fundies. I got yer fundies right here. For example, here is an excellent review of the movie “Ice Age.” And you should also read this LBC news release on the use of the term Fundamentalist. And this is always good advice.

Larry: Anyone telling you that a helmet is sufficient in this bar is playing you bad. Once Angus is agitated, a full suit of body armor is mandatory. And thanks for not being from Texas or Ohio ;-) BTW, I am going to move the Preacher’s workshop to the following Monday at 7 p.m.

I had 20 people show up at my class this morning. All because I wasn’t teaching and Ravi was teaching. Must be the hair.

This news that the Saudis are financing the terrorists to leave them alone is SOOOOO predictable. The story really is WILL WE CARE? We are in bed with such crud over there. I would love to see tanks in Riyad. I do not know why we persist in acting like the whole Arab world together could give us a two week fight. Like a dog humping your leg, don’t stand there, kick him across the room.

I have say Jack........Until you go to the Globe I have no sympathy for you. I am thinking of flying over, going to the Globe and coming back just to blog about it. The British music scene must be frightening right now.

I do have sympathy for both you guys far from wives and family. I am so fortunate to be one block from my whole world. I could give up my car and never miss it. One of the many benefits of working for well under $10,000 per year.

My reference to the Creationist museum is no joke. Ken “Were you there?” Ham and AIG are building a museum in Northern Kentucky which will be a perpetual field trip around here. I know many of these guys see zoos like the Cinci zoo as propaganda machines for the evolutionists, but I never visited the gorillas and felt I was at a family reunion. But that’s just me.

The only college football game I care about is UK and UL this year, which will satisfy my insatiable blood thirst to see UK suffer endlessly in any all ways related to sport. Of course, the crowd at a UK football game could be drawn away by $50 tickets to see the basketball teaming relieving themselves, but that won’t lessen the pleasure in the final score. Plus, UL has a stadium named after a pizza. Is that class or what?

I just passed through the Tavern after being out for two days. Good discussions! I, too, feel that Christian school kids need to be very in-the-know about evolution so they’ll understand what views are out there and will be able to make intelligent personal decisions and hold their own in such discussions when they get out in the “real world.” And I’ve never understood why more Christian science (not “Christian Science!”) teachers can’t present all theories in equal detail and then briefly share their own personal beliefs without spending all their time on one approach to the exclusion of others. The evidence is definitely in our camp! A teacher shouldn’t be afraid to let students examine all the views, because anybody who says all this could have just happened randomly is calling up more faith than it takes to believe there is a Creator. (Excuse me—-can you tell I just watched a Ravi Zacharias video segment this a.m.?) I’m no scientist, but personlly I’ve never had a problem with evolution within a species. To me, that’s just another of God’s miracles to allow creatures to adapt and change to adjust to their circumstances. It shows our awesome God is still, always creating.

Judson, I recently read Guinness’ Long Journey Home. Isn’t it wonderful? I plan to use it with my youth LIFE group at church in the coming months. I figure it will stretch the mind of my thoughtful freshman, and will help prepare my senior for what she’ll face at college. I’m now in the last stages of reading his The Call, and it’s quite good too. The ground I’ve covered this past week has really been personally helpful to me with some struggles I’d been having…but I digress.

Michael – sounds like you have to deal with some gen-u-ine dyed-in-the-wool fundies where you teach. Sheesh! I thought those kinds of people were simply caricatures. That must be why I left the SBC in 1984 – what a bunch of blockheads.

Judson – I’d have a cold one with you, but I’ve gotta eat first. Went to my first and last “Carnival” today in Notting Hill. I feel defiled and I cannot wait to wash my hands. This is billed as the biggest street party in Europe. My experience there today adds just one more reason to my list of things I hate about England in general and Europe in particular. The dirt. The crowds. The noise. The garbage. The filth. The sheer wallowing in mediocrity. (I was hoping for some good live bands – all I got was platter-screeching DJs with their 300,000 amp sound systems. I wouldn’t enjoy that kinda thing drunk, let alone stone-cold sober.) I’m just glad it cost me nothing more than three hours of my life. I couldn’t help wishing for some JSBach played at about 130 decibels.

Ever read Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy? There’s a scene where Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect get picked up by a ship of fools – honest-to-god fools. It is an entire spaceship manned by the mediocre non-performing and unessential dregs of society – telephone sanitation engineers, hair-dressers, telemarketers and the like; people without talent, without brains and without any awareness of their own towering mediocrity.

“Carnival” is where they all gather to party.

Boy, drinking in the tavern on a Sabbath day at 11:15 in the morning sure is lonely! I would lord my libertinism over all you people, if it weren’t for the fact that I have such a sedentary job and such a gracious employer, who doesn’t mind me spending a little time on the internet. That, and the fact that all you people are at home, and I’m in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico.

Wanna know the difference between being on a ship and being in prison?

In prison, it’s impossible to drown.

Lord, I am ignert. I had no idea that Os Guinness is the 6th generation direct descendant of Arthur Guinness. (Or, Saint Arthur as I like to call him). I just learned this while reading his book “Long Journey Home”. A good book, which I am hoping will temper any hyper-Calvinism which might reside in me (I’m sure there’s some in there somewhere).

Gadzooks! (look up that word, you’ll be very amused) He didn’t know what chocolate pie was? I’ll bet he didn’t even know that the frothy stuff on top is called “calf slobber”.

Judson: The failure to deal with the micro/macro thing is a real problem. In building an entire war effort against “evolution” in general, the creationists usually overlook the fact that that the basic fact and mechanism of micro-evolution is right there in front of us every day in breeding, agriculture. When I bring this up to my students, there is always a lot of defensiveness. Then it becomes “Spencer” believes in evolution. Well, what do you mean? That I can breed a better Scottish Terrier? Or that human beings evolved from one-eyed walking catfish? When I say that there is nothing in the Bible to exclude evolution within a species or through INTELLIGENT manipulation of breeding, all it hits is the evolution=demonic anti-Christianity wall.

I also think there is an over-reaction to the genetic similarity of many living things. So what if God used a similar template for all kinds of things? It starts to smack of the exclusion of evidence that might be used bythe other side. It all is so Galileo.

For me this whole subject comes down to a failure to let Genesis 1-3 be what it is. IOW ignoring the literary evidence for what we have. Just like I believe that “stars will fall from the sky” is a literary construction, but is absolutely true, so I believe Genesis 1-3 is a literary creation that has little or no bearing on the ruminations of science. But that is just me, and I don’t care about football.

Yankees: My yankee future son-in-law was served a piece of chocolate pie for dessert last night. He claimed to have never eated a piece before…... This child was raised in New York and Ohio. All I can say is…God help them. Such child abuse is shocking. Grits is one thing, but this….

Will somebody please hand me a bar towel and help me with this fire on the bar, which was pre-destined to be started by Gregory? :-)

Personally, I can’t see macroevolution, as the current dogma describes it, as being valid. Micro is a different deal, however. Tell anybody who likes thoroughbred horse racing that human-directed microevolution isn’t possible (oh wait, fundamentalists aren’t supposed to like horse racing, so it’s ok :)

I’d like any staunch young earther who drives a gasoline powered vehicle to give it up. The formation through which my drilling rig is crunching as I write this was laid down approximately 13 million years ago, in the Miocene. (this oil and gas will be reaching your market in approximatlely one year. Better start conserving all your “young” petroleum products.

ID definitely ought to be taught, and taught well in all schools. It’s honest science with no REAL presuppositions (other than that God is the creator). I’m a big fan of Phil Johnson’s “wedge of truth”.

MikeB: Although both of my parents are Red Raiders, I’m no great fan of the tortilla-slingers. I will, however, be in attendance in Kyle field in October to watch the farmers WHIP Nebraska.

Mike B: Any football game played before Labor Day can be officially ignored. Especially college football games.

Stupid TV money.

Larry & Michael: (Welcome, Larry. Hope you brought your helmet.)
The good news about standardised testing is that nobody needs to “master” anything to succeed with those, especially in the realm of biology. As long as your kids have heard the terms and can dance to the music played by the evolutionary fidler, they can handle the SAT/ACT. We do our children a great disservice to teach one theory and not the other. To lead in this world, they need to know what the world believes. And they need to know why the world believes it. And finally, they need to be fearless but not arrogant about their own position. (Now that should be easy to teach a class of ninth-graders.)

Not to change the subject, but, um . . . Judd . . . Ron H . . . Jack . . . Mrs. Matthew . . . WHOOOO WAAAAA!

BEST of 9/11
People temporarily turned to God. It was weak and flawed, like everything that we do, but it was a temporary turn, none-the-less. Now, if they would have tithed that week … }->

WORST of 9/11
DId not scare us enough. Of course, the Israelites turned back to whining a short time after getting a large number killed, so why should we be any different?

Should 9/11 become a holiday:
Sure, as long as we also have Shiloh day, Antietam day, D-day (oh, wait, those are wars). To stick to other events, how about Arthur P. Murrah building day, or Branch Davidian day. Hell, let’s just make a Victim’s day, the day where everyone can feel sorry for themselves for [fill in your favorite whine here]. Most of our holidays are grouped anyway: Veteran’s Day, Memorial Day and President’s Day.

Judson: I certainly do not hinge on the word “in”, but I do believe that the Greek expresses more of what we mean when we say believe in than believe that. I am assuming you are talking the Jesus project, and their ilk with the inspired/uninspired talk.

Ron: As I have stated, I am more in line with old earth, but I like to play the devil’s advocate. When we look at glaciers, we are looking at what we have today and the speed of travel, et al. Assuming a flood (or a spherical cow, using a term from a person I worked with), with the resulting volcanic activity, et al, and assuming a large sheet of ice, the view of the speed at which glaciers cut would have to be dramatically altered. Could it be done in a small number of years, I would tend to bet against it, but who knows.

What is interesting is any model that does not fit the billions of years necessary for a true evolutionary model are summarily dismissed. Of course, the creationist side tends to summarily dismiss anything that goes against their argument, as well. The bad thing is Morris looks like a moron in scientific circles and the evolutionists are touted as heros … yet, both sides are being quite sloppy. There are quite a few models that support a young earth. Of course, you have to hinge sedimentary deposits on a global flood, or the like, to get to the proper age, which most in the scientific community scoff at.

I guess the point is that I would not cement the old earth simply on a glacier. I would not throw it away, as it is a good starting point for a theory (or belief system), but I would keep an open mind there. While I generally regard Morris as a little loopy, his research on Mt. St. Helens is quite interesting. I do not think that old earth does anything to take away from the sovereignty of God any more than people having free will would (oops, I started a fire on the bar).

1. What are some of the a) BEST and b) WORST things that have come out of 9/11?
2. Should 9/11 become a national holiday? (Reasons please)

ME: 1a. The true nature of absolute good and evil actually recognized by most people for a few weeks. 1b. The ridiculous whining of the victim families for $$.
2. Absolutely not. Making holidays out of “victim” events would open the door to every group insisting on a victimization day of their own.

Larry and group: This quandry is not a new thing at our school. It reflects the indecision in Baptist life about whether to go all out and become fundamentalists. Schools affiliated with the Baptist State Conventions and the SBC have always been committed to the highest standards of accrediting agencies and did not want to become part of the fundamentalist ghetto. But with the movement of Christian education into the lower grades, it has become more common for our schools to be using Abeka or Bob Jones materials because they are “Christian.” There is nothing narrower than the pitch of a company trying to sell Christian curriculum. Our school used to be full of Bob Jones materials, with books that said you shouldn’t read Edgar Allen Poe because he was in hell and used drugs. You get the picture. When I first came, we had a senior English teacher that would teach Pieretti and Elwood right along with Shakespeare and Conrad. I’m sorry folks, but if one is great literature, then the other isn’t. You can’t have it both ways. But its difficult to go all the way either way these days and not create a lot of trouble. Our faculty would be VERY divided on issues like should our kids even read the classics as opposed just reading the Bible. Our current English chair, my friend Dan Stockton, gives our kids a wonderful education that avoids the ghetto.

BTW, in my silly opinion, since Bob Jones U has policies based on race that I feel are wrong, I do not know why any Christian school would use their materials, no matter what their quality. Now I’ve gone and done it.

Welcome to Larry King, currently pressed into the service of teaching my son 9th grade biology at OBI, and a man who has never, to my knowledge, tortured me for not being a young earther. But the night is young ;) Very glad to have you on board. (Read the rules at least once if possible.)

Larry: Here’s my opinion. Given what one of my fans has recently said, its not worth much. My son and my daughter are not going to be tested over the Bob Jones Biology course on the ACT. They are not going to be tested over the Bob Jones Biology course at Centre and Eastern. If they were being told by our school to do the proper fundamentalist thing and not take secular standardized tests (which many Christian school students do not) and were being told by the school and their parents to go to Pennsacola or Liberty or Bryant, then I would understand a consistent approach. Rend those secular texts into a million pieces and bring on the BJU texts, the Ken Ham/Kent Hovin video curriculum and the Creationist museum field trips.

Instead, we have said for as long as we have been in business- that we were preparing our kids for the ACT, the AP tests and for secular colleges and universities including medical school and beyond. Amen. But, if that is the case, then don’t we owe it to these kids to teach what they will be expected to know and not doom them to low scores, rejected admissions and the nightmare of incomprehensible classes on the university level? Personally, I think a critique of evoltionary theory is mandatory, but I think a thorough understanding of the prevailing model is also mandatory, because my kids won’t be tested over their knowledge of the creationist model when they are sitting there with the ACT, SAT or AP tests.

When I came to OBI the biology teacher had been here 20 years. Did not believe evolution. Did not teach young earth creationism. Used the secular texts. Two years later, the Biology department was manned by a guy who told all the students that I was not a Christian because I was not a young earth creationist and that no one who wasn’t could be a Christian. BTW, he flunked 50% of his students. We don’t miss him. This isn’t an easy issue, and I don’t envy you in the classroom. But I think the choice to teach creationism means we should be honest and refuse the standardized tests and send our kids to the fundamentalist schools, because to prepare them for the ACT,SAT and AP, and the university beyond, will mean mastering and understanding the evolutionist model.

A good editorial from CT about Franklin Graham’s controversial comments on Islam. 1) He is being asked repeatedly to explain his views on Islam. 2) He has been in many Muslim nations and knows them up close. 3) He is bringing thousands of dollars of aid to Muslim countries through Samaritan’s Purse. I think there is almost an irresistable urge on the part of the media to ruin Franklin Graham. It has something to do with the fact that they really never laid much of a glove on Billy. They have to show that if BG was nearly perfect, his kids darned sure aren’t. They are mean narrow minded Christian hypocrites like the rest of us.

How would you respond to a Christian co-worker- a person you work with every day up close- who is simply hopelessly purposely rude? I mean a person who has no idea that you shouldn’t be cruelly honest (comments on physical characteristics), doesn’t know how to be tactful or grateful and has no concept of basic graciousness and manners. Constantly offending people.

I wish I’d written this- from “Play Boy” over on regenerator.com:

In launching Playboy, perhaps the smartest thing Hugh Hefner did was in establishing his personality as that of a witty, urbane sophisticate who enjoyed the company of many, many young women. After all, who knows how many fewer copies the magazine might have sold, had he instead depicted himself as a solitary masturbator?

—Tim Carvell, “History’s Great Persons Reconsidered,” on McSweeneys.net

Anyone else notice that heaven gets a lot more interesting when you hit the mid 40’s? A book I should have listed the other day: Mark Buchanan, Things Unseen (Mult). I’ve been thinking a lot about my uncle Tom, a great musician who died last week in Florida. I never heard him play a note, but guess what? I will. In Christ, we lose nothing and gain so much more than we ever dreamed.

My mom asked me today what were the symptoms of Altzheimers. I said I couldn’t remember.

MatthewJ: Write ‘em. Sell ‘em. BTW, I am stalking you on that pizza buffet business. I still have a car. And $3??? How can you sleep at night for taking that kind of $? You should be paying her.

I appreciate the recent comments on here that it is bizarre to be surprised that the godless act and think and live like the godless. I know this I know this. I just have to remember to act like it.

Preaching on the Crucifixion tomorrow. Like being given a whale and told to cook it.

By the way Ed, If I do eat excrement and die, I’m going to heaven, and my wife is going to sue the company that made the stuff.

And as long as we’re talking about it, Dragon Science is just plain downright cool.

The Age O’ the Earth Question
If your theology is dependent upon a scientific theory, then you have the cart before the horse. But that doesn’t mean the cart is unimportant. There are some things that are true about the physical universe and some things that are false. Evolutionary theory pisses me off not because of its godlessness – I expect godlessness from the godless – but because its proponents are so unscientific.

The evidence suggests the earth is very old, but only if you assume that the evidence is reliable. And that is the exact assumption evolutionary science makes. Darwinism is utterly dependent upon a theory of cosmology known as Uniformism – a doctrine that the earth has not suffered any kind of global cataclysm. But if the planet has suffered any sort of global cataclysm – say for instance a reversal of the magnetic poles or a displacement from its orbit – then the planet is like a crime scene that has been tampered with. You can no longer depend upon the validity of the evidence. Of course, if the planet had been displaced from its orbit or the poles had been reversed, there would certainly be evidence of that, would there not?

Funny you should bring that up.

Literally mountains of evidence exist to indicate the probability that just such cataclysms have occured, but as they utterly negate the accepted orthodoxy of modern science, the data is simply ignored. Too many scientists, publishers and philosophers have their entire life’s work invested in the implications of Uniformism for Catastophism to be allowed to rear its ugly head. If the Darwinists were merely ignorant, I could suffer them, but they are liars and hypocrites and their theories and models are worthy of nothing but scorn.

It is no coincidence that Marxist-Leninism and National Socialism developed after the Enlightenment, after Origin of Species and after Also Sprach Zarathustra. Voltaire, Darwin and Nietsche laid the philosophical and scientific foundations upon which the most murderous regimes in history were built. Roe v Wade is their direct decendent.

That’s nothing, Michael. My mom said that to me last night. Just kidding. I’m in Memphis, TN at the moment. This is the city of Elvis and the best danged barbequed ribs I’ve ever had in my life (at the Rendezvous). It’s also the city I will most likely be calling home in about 10 months. I start my last nine months of school in 10 days. I am so looking forward to never taking another class as long as I live. Thankfully, my grades aren’t good enough to get into a PhD program so I won’t have to bother myself with that. Michael, I just finished my storytelling class. It was great and I never realized how many good stories I had in me. Granted, most of them came from my grandparents but they are my stories now. I feel like I’m rambling now, but as I was reading your post about Jabez I thought about a woman around Wilmore who is buying my copy of that vine book (the Jabez follow-up) for $3. Someone gave it to me as a gift and I’ve never read it, but I have a feeling I’m getting the better end of that deal. I’m going to take my $3 and save it until I have enough for a pizza buffet at Milano’s. Oh, I don’t mean to say this in order to put jealousy in your heart, but I’m getting paid $10 an hour for 6 weeks to beta/content test this new Zondervan Bible Study software. I might get additional work because I can test out their Greek software stuff, too (I wish I had studied Hebrew more; I could have gotten more work!). Well, good night to all. Especially you, you excrement eating a-hole! ;)

PS – I’m so close to Oxford right now. A Faulkner article sure would be fun to read…..

It’s getting worse. My fan has now told me to eat excrement and die, a—hole. And I thought you LIKED me!

My continuing tilt at Jabez. Here is an article from CT about Spurgeon’s sermon on Jabez. Very good job outlining the differences between Wilkinson and Spurgeon and anyone who doesn’t think evangelicalism has gone pretty darned shallow in the last century should read it all. Here is the sermon itself from the www.spurgeon.org archives.

RonH: Do you print out the magazine? I do, and keep them all. I really enjoy it!

On our deleted brother: I have waited to see if our departed brother would return, but it appears the last episode was indeed the end. I appreciated all his contributions and want to say he is one of the smartest men I have ever met on the net. I hope he is able to find a place in ministry where he can use his considerable gifts. One of the things that makes BHT a good place is a virtue called “forebearance” with one another. But there is a time when forebearance has to be set aside for a person’s own good, and then it is up to the individual to deal with the information constructively. On the last day of our brother’s posting, three persons bluntly and basically stated the same conclusions, and I hope that there was a helpful truth in there somewhere. If our brother is out there reading, he is always welcome back.

Judson: Would love to hear how your wife responds to this question of the age of the earth. I am the only old earther on the science or Bible faculty here (unless someone is holding out) and my interactions have been pretty negative, so I try to stay away from them. For one thing, they are all utterly convinced that Genesis must be interpreted scientifically to be inspired. I am well known around here for denying that presupposition. The other problem is the idea that a critique of evaolution or an argument with evolution from the Creationist standpoint establishes the entire creationist cosmology, with the flood being the reason for everything. This gives me the creeps, because the flaws in any evolutionary model DO NOT ESTABLISH some other model that refuses to answer questions. So when I talk about the speed of light or anything else, I get told the same thing- watch the video by _____ _____________ (fill in blank of either of two guys.) There is always this sense that if I really believed the Bible I would get on this bandwagon. To which I say hitching your wagon to any SCIENTIFIC bandwagon is a mistake.

Anyone want to comment on how catastrophic events fit into traditional Christian eschatology?

BTW, I have deleted a member of the blog that has not posted for a month, and I may have more to say about this later.

Michael: Well, it’s one thing to call you a hole. But it’s quite another to call you a Mormon!!!

Gregory: I’m pretty sure we’d both agree that sound interpretation of those texts doesn’t entirely hinge on the word “in”. My point is that it’s delicious to even think about it, kind of an exercise in semantics. As sound believers ourselves, we have no problem with it. My main beef is with the hopelessly liberal, who constantly pick apart scripture, saying “this book is inspired, this one isn’t”, etc. In their cases, the problem is most definitely that they do not believe God at all. They can’t believe IN Jesus because they simply don’t believe God.

As for the age of the earth- I’m definitely in the camp that puts our blessed rock perhaps in the range of billions of years old. Anyone who has spent much time in the american southwest- my favorite place- will soon be awed by the extravagant geologic epic on display there. If you really want to get a sense of God’s weight and his creative glory, stare at Shiprock for a few hours, or at one of the window rocks carved completely by wind. Simply awesome.

I just got a letter from a reader calling me an a—hole, a moron and saying no one will ever read anything I write. This is so devastating, I am shutting down the entire site. Goodbye everyone. I so sorry to have brought so much pain into the world…...

I was just thinking about one of my favorite scenes in a movie (wasting tremendous space, of course). From “five easy pieces” (You gotta love Jack):

INT. ROADSIDE CAFE – DAY

All four are seated at a booth. The women have
given their orders and a WAITRESS stands above
Bobby, waiting for his:

BOBBY
(looking at his menu)
I’ll have an omelette, no potatoes.
Give me tomatoes instead, and wheat
toast instead of rolls.

The waitress indicates something on the menu with
the butt of her pencil.

WAITRESS
No substitutions.

BOBBY
What does that mean? You don’t have
any tomatoes?

WAITRESS
(annoyed)
No. We have tomatoes.

BOBBY
But I can’t have any. Is that what
you mean?

WAITRESS
Only what’s on the menu…
(again, indicating with
her pencil)
A Number Two: Plain omelette. It
comes with cottage fries and rolls.

BOBBY
I know what it comes with, but
that’s not what I want.

WAITRESS
I’ll come back when you’ve made up
your mind…

She starts to move away and Bobby detains her.

BOBBY
Wait, I’ve made up my mind. I want
a plain omelette, forget the
tomatoes, don’t put potatoes on the
plate, and give me a side of wheat
toast and a cup of coffee.

WAITRESS
I’m sorry, we don’t have side
orders of toast. I can give you an
English muffin or a coffee roll.

BOBBY
What do you mean, you don’t have
side orders of toast? You make
sandwiches, don’t you?

WAITRESS
Would you like to talk to the
manager?

PALM
Hey, mack!

BOBBY
(to Palm)
Shut up.
(to the waitress)
You have bread, don’t you, and a
toaster of some kind?

WAITRESS
I don’t make the rules.

BOBBY
Okay, I’ll make it as easy for you
as I can. Give me an omelette,
plain, and a chicken salad sandwich
on wheat toast—no butter, no
mayonnaise, no lettuce—and a cup
of coffee.

She begins writing down his order, repeating it
sarcastically:

WAITRESS
One Number Two, and a chicken sal
san—hold the butter, the mayo,
the lettuce—and a cup of
coffee… Anything else?

BOBBY
Now all you have to do is hold the
chicken, bring me the toast, charge
me for the sandwich, and you
haven’t broken any rules.

WAITRESS
(challenging him)
You want me to hold the chicken.

BOBBY
Yeah. I want you to hold it between
your knees.

The other three laugh, and the waitress points to a
“Right to Refuse” sign above the counter.

WAITRESS
You see that sign, sir?!

Bobby glances over at it, then back to her.

WAITRESS (CONT’D)
You’ll all have to leave, I’m not
taking any more of your smartness
and your sarcasm!

He smiles politely at her, then:

BOBBY
You see this sign?

He reaches his arm out and “clears” the table for
her.

Judson: Faith is the belief in things unseen, as iterated by both Paul and Jesus. John 3:16 states that those that BELIEVE IN, not believe. I believe Jesus died on the cross, therefore I am saved? No, you believe in Jesus, which brings about a change in your life and your tree begins to bear fruit (not always, as evidenced by my behavior last night – stress is fun!!!!). I believe in my father (worldly) would also mean that I work hard to obey his rules. And, you are right, there is a lot of responsibility here.

As for the church being like the world, I believe the church is the body of believers, not the physical building. Yet, our temporal society seems to relegate the building to the level of church. You should remain faithful to your church, meaning the building, and not leave to another church! I did not know there was more than one church. As the body of Christ, we all have a role to play (Paul is quite plain about the one body, many parts).

As for the “woman of my dreams” part: I work with a man who recently went through a divorce. He has posters of nubile young women on the wall, along with the scantily clad women’s calendars, et al. I can tell you why he is divorced. He was always looking elsewhere. That which you focus on regularly becomes your idol. The Satan’s spawn comment came from the fact that I believe looking for your “dream woman”, once married, is a dangerous thing to do.

Circumcised heart: You have to be broken in order to be made new. I am a living example of that truism. The dark pieces must be cut away for one to truly live for Chr