Baptist Press has the best news on the shootings in Yemen.

You gotta read the CT Weblog stuff on how UNC, Rutgers and Havard are out to defund IVCF. Among other things, they must allow non-Christians to be leaders. This is where PC is headed? I could be the next Miss Black America!

I assume you all have bought Left Behind II?

Nice interview with R.C. Talks about his conversion.

The BenHen article in case you missed it. If he goes under, I want the hair.

Joe Kovacs Funniest stories of the year over at WND. (I know, I know, but THIS is funny stuff.)

“We can talk to our closest living relatives, the chimpanzees, with sign language. They don’t believe in God or an afterlife, so why do we?”- Sci-Fi writer Robert Sawyer in the liner notes for his new book, Hominoids.

A Jonah fan site.

From Jon Adler at the Corner: Rep. Charles Rangel wants to bring back the draft to ensure “shared sacrifice.” (This is how Democrats show they are strong on defense?) If Rangel is serious—and he says he will introduce legislation in 2003—an Instapundit reader suggests Rangel apply the principle to education, and introduce legislation requiring that all members of Congress send their children to public school.

Dave Letterman has just earned my respect.

The PCUSA continues to fall apart.

Christianity Today’s Top Ten News Stories of ‘02.

A great piece from Dennis Prager, “If You Believe People Are basically Good...”

Jake: You couldn’t spend any better time than digesting the material HERE on DG’s page devoted to this topic. Don’t let me tell you what books to buy, but if you don’t own The Pleasures of God by JP you are missing an enormous treat. He has a set of tapes on TULIP that are also very good. Careful exegesis and good Q/A.

Happy New Year to you Matthew. Remember, it will soon be 1953 in Arkansas ;-)

Foreknowledge: I’ve been having this debate with Dr. Jerry over on DB for weeks. Open Theism in my view is simple heresy.

Happy New Year’s from Espa๑a.

Jake: People talked about it, preached it, prayed about it and lived it. From the first century to 20th century China, no “evangelism methods” were needed. As scripture says, “God was adding” to HIS church. The methods who speak of are all rooted in the common belief that the human will, if it makes a decision, accomplishes regeneration. Therefore, the children of Finney have done everything (twice) to get decisions out of people. Read articles two and three on the invitation.

Some comments on the way Calvinism is addressed on this board.

First, I believe that my Arminian friends are saved. I believe they are zealous for the Gospel. I believe they take the scriptures seriously. I believe many (not all) have contemplated their position and hold it with integrity. I do not think most of my Arminian friends are nut cases, extremists or sheepish followers of some teacher. I do not think they are purposely lopping the Biblical God down to sub-God size. I believe they desire all his glory to be maintained. I believe they have studied the scriptures and are interpreting the scriptures with integrity, even though I disagree with their conclusions.

When this subject comes up on this board- and I am very glad it does from time to time- there are some things that seem to never quite be said and I think I need to acknowledge them.

1) If God’s foreknowledge is limited to events that have occured and does not include events that have not yet occured, is Classic Christian Orthodoxy wrong? In other words, is exhaustive foreknowledge necessary to affirm the God of the Bible? Is Dr. Piper wrong to insist that exhaustive foreknowledge is an essential tenet of the Biblical doctrine of God? Is the Openness position acceptable?
2) Are persons who choose to describe themselves as Calvinists (or Arminians) somehow inferior to those who do not choose to identify their theology with one of the major teams on the field?
3) Is the Bible unclear on the subject of election? Is the subject of election discussed in the Bible in a coherent way? Can a Christian formulate a coherent doctrine of election from the material in scripture?
4) Can Biblical statements on election be interpreted rightly from philosophical positions?
5) Is Calvinism or Arminianism an extreme position?

I’m not trying to be a Calvinistic Grinch. I just wonder if the real issues will ever be addressed.

1) Exhaustive foreknowledge is absolutely necessary to a Christian conception of God.
2) Those who choose to identify with one of the teams on the field are generally doing so out of conviction, not convenience.
3) The Bible is exceedingly clear on the subject of election, and both teams agree. The Bible may be less clear on the basis of election.
4) Philosophical positions cannot trump the Biblical text without reference to the clear teaching of clear texts.
5) No, though both carry extremists in the extended family.

Gregory: You are the second person I have heard take the position that the work of Christ would be in no way denigrated if Jesus was incarnated, lived, died was raised and no one whatsoever believed. Saluto on consistency. It is a rare quality and I respect it.

Gregory, I live a couple hours NW of Michael. Well, it’s practically Lexington, KY. I prefer the Guiness type of stout, but I’m willing to try a sweeter brand. I mainly want to make a mead because of Beowulf and an article I read on NRO called “The Family that Brews Together…” with something else after that.

I have to run. It’s 11:30pm here so we have to watch the Spanish equivalent of Times Square (Plaza del Sol).

Jake: Uh! The bible, churches and roving preachers. Pretty much the same as New Testament time. Just a thought! ;->

Bill: In general, when a debate gets started on God, at least from Christians, we find that we each are viewing from a different direction.

Matthew: My advice is this. Go to your local homebrew store and get a good homebrew kit. By this, I mean one with a good glass carboy. In general, you should be able to get one for about $75, which generally includes your first kit. While I generally use dry malt now (I have not malted my own barley—would love to, but the time constraints …). Not knowing where you are, this may be more of a chore, and you may have to assemble your own “kit”. Here are the necessities and the niceties:

Carboy – plastic container will suffice in an emergency, but glass will not leave an aftertaste.
Bottling container – plastic is fine
plastic tube – both to move from carboy to bottling container and to bottles
bottles and caps – well duh!
some form of shut off valve for filling bottles
large pot – for boiling wort (malt, water and hops)
sitrring spoon

It is also nice to have something to keep the yeast from being transfered from carboy to container, as well as a thermometer to make sure the wort is cooled enough to not kill your yeast, but you can pour into the glass and add the yeast later as long as you are careful not to leave open long enough to get unsanitary.

For batch one, just do a kit, if you can find one. This generally is the batch that teaches the beermeister the importance of cleaning everything. Although there are few bacteria that can kill you that can live in beer, they can sure make it taste horrible. From the on, Papazian’s book “The Joy of Homebrewing” has some nice tips and recipes (it is the bible of homebrewing, and a quick read will tell you why—it is not the best for mead, but everyone has to specialize a bit, and there are mead recipes in there).

I can dig out my Stout recipe if you like a sweeter stout. I am not a hophead, so I tend to shy away from real Imperials, unless the malt mix is just right.

Greg: I think perhaps we’re talking about much the same thing but that we’re using different approaches. I absolutely believe that God takes pity on us, that our prayers move Him to do things, that He answers and honors our prayers. My point is that God gains no new information from our prayers. He gains no insights into our intentions or condition of our heart. He knows all things. He has always known our prayers and how He would answer them. He deals with us in linear time because we are bound by linear time, but I don’t believe God is involved in “finding things out” as time goes along. I don’t think this really has anything to do with Calvinism.

Gregory, you mentioned something in your last post that is way more important than the whole Calvinism thing. I want to start home brewing. I’d like to make a nice mead as well as some stout. How did you get started?

It’s 2.5 hours till 2003 here. Before we got here the Spanish police arrested some people who were involved in a plan to blow up a car in downtown Madrid (they are with the Basque separatist/terrorist group ETA). I still think something might happen, but we’re staying some tonight.

Bill: I am, rather, suggesting that many of these “issues” are secondary. As a human, with a very finite view of things, we tend to “major on the minors.”

For context: I currently attend a Baptist church. I grew up in the Methodist church. And, I was saved in a charismatic church. While each approaches worship in a very different manner, each believes in the diety of Christ and that Christ is the only way to salvation. You see, in most churches, the idea that scripture is our guidebook to determine whether something is of God, or not. I tend to throw away the denominational garbage, which once led me to say, “I am a good Christian, but a very bad Baptist,” which related to my refusal to quit home brewing or drinking a good malty beverage. Now, in all truth, I would love to say I am a righteous Christian, but righteousness is imparted by God, not by me, and that might tend to lead to an overly inflated view of my part in the grand design.

I digress: There are scriptural references where it can be argued that God did indeed take pity on the one praying and changed His mind. Now, this may also be interpreted that God made the appearance, to man, that man swayed God and that God had already made up His mind. But, then we end up in an interesting problem, as God is not the author of confusion and setting up the expectation that our prayers may actually help the outcome leads to our confusion. I bleieve that God can somehow exist in both realms and both sides of this argument can be correct. Of course, my Hebrew studies are a bit lacking, so I have not consulted the original language for much of the Old Testament. I am a bit better versed in Greek. As such, I am working with the English translation, which I find falls flat against the more specific Greek and Hebrew.

Now, the transcendence argument gets to be core to many. Foreknowledge I will agree with, but is it intimately knowing the hearts of man, or actually playing out His hand in every event? Does man have some leeway, or not?

I probably need to take a bit more time reading Calvanist doctrine to ensure I am not painting a characature of a Calvanist. I do believe I am being a bit more level headed than some, but I may be wrong. ;->

Greg: I do think the scriptures are clear that God has complete foreknowledge, whether that means God is time transcendent or not, so I think the arguments for God knowing all prayers ahead of time is still valid. Plus, if time is a thing, then it was created by God, making him transcendent of it. But, as you say, that’s not the point of the current discussion.

My statement about God’s Omnipotence, Omniscience and man’s free will was just to attempt to prove a point about God’s ability to accomplish His desired purpose even if He didn’t mess with people’s hearts. I didn’t mean to suggest that you held the view that they were indeed separate. I know that you don’t.

I’m confused about one of your other statements. Are you suggesting that God doesn’t know certain outcomes? That would open up whole new discussions about Open Theism. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting what you are saying. I do agree that God deals with us individually.

Bill: We know very little about God’s complete nature from the scriptures, as 66 books paints a very small picture (God in a box). We do know that God’s time is different from ours from two passages, but we do not know that God transcends time, as we have no scripture that can be interpreted conclusively. Thus, we debate on points that each side takes as a given. We also do not know that God has made up His mind and never changes it as we see both sides of the issue in Numbers when dealing with Moses’ prayers.

To many, a God that does not transcend time is a given, and, therefore, He cannot change His mind. They say to believe otherwise creates an impotent God. Of course, a God that has already determined history can be argued to be impotent, as well, at least in the here and now, as He has no active say.

As for your statement: Also, suppose we accept both God’s Omnipotence, Omniscience and man’s free will with no direct heart interference by God – I had never stated that there is no interaction. In fact, I fully believe that it is the Holy Spirit drawing that leads us to God, and that the witness is either an instrument, or merely allowed to participate. In either case, the witness is utilized by God as a gift to the witness, and not a gift to God (as there is nothing we can give Him that He does not already have). God has, at times, used some mighty strange instruments (Balaam’s donkey, for example), but it is up to Him.

One question is does God know the outcome, or does He know the hearts of man. Either one yields the same results, as he knows every fiber of our being. The fact that He reaches each of us in a different manner tells me that God does respond to the individual in a very unique way. With end game already decided for each individual, I see no necessity for responding like this. Also, if end game is already known, why warn people that they might fall away?

In the end, this is largely window dressing, as the agreement that only Christ saves and we are instruments, which can be scriptural shown with a great deal of certainty, really matter. If one dies and finds that God participates in time rather than outside of time, does it change their minds about wanting to spend time with Him in eterntiy. On the other hand, if a person finds their free will did not matter, do they refuse eternity? In both cases, no!

I must be a glutton for punishment. I’ve hooked up again with Wise Seeker (going by a different moniker since he’s been banned once) over at Apologetics.com

Greg: Actually I don’t think prayer is useless because God has already made up His mind, since He has known from eternity past what our prayers would be and what His answer to them would be. I don’t agree with some Calvinists that prayers are only for the ones praying and don’t move God’s hand. What I don’t believe, is that our prayers change His mind. I think foreknowledge rules out that option. I am currently ridiculed quite a bit (nicely) in our church for that position.

Also, suppose we accept both God’s Omnipotence, Omniscience and man’s free will with no direct heart interference by God (I don’t believe it but let’s go with it for a moment). God knows what it will take to turn someone to Christ and He is able to do it. I don’t know my children perfectly but I know them pretty well. Under certain circumstances I know what to do to elicit a desired response from them. My singing will, for example, clear the room of my children. I have accomplished my purpose (assuming I wanted the room to myself) without impinging upon their free will. How much more is God able to do that who knows us perfectly, even better than we know ourselves?

I don’t believe in libertarian free will, but I don’t think free will and election are incompatible, even by Calvinist definitions.

I think you are absolutely correct that God uses us as instruments in the salvation of others and that we participate in the harvest. To deny it is to deny almost the entirety of the New Testament. Satan himself is an instrument in some respects.

Bill: Both Arminianism and Calvanism have a problem, when you go to the extreme. In a system where free will is the only guiding dictate, you end up with people that God cannot help (as you mention), due to the fact that they must be swayed by reason. As such, prayer is useless. At the other end of the extreme, God has already made up his mind when the individual is born. As such, prayer is also a waste, as God has already made up his mind.

I am not a Calvanist, at least not in the extreme sense. I am not an Arminian either, at least not in the extreme sense. I cannot take either the Doctrine of the Elect or the Doctrine of choice and find enough scripture to blot out the other. We are saved by God, not by the words or prayers of man. Prayer is God’s gift to us, allowing us to participate in a harvest where he needs no workers. This is not a uniquely Calvanistic position. In fact, in my estimation, it makes the most sense somewhere in the middle.

I think, if we would break down the arguments, we would find that those who preach Free Will and those that preach Calvanism are much closer, in many, if not most, cases, than they are apart. To me, God draws whom he will. Scripture tells us it is His desire that none shall perish, but that everyone that believed would be saved. It is hard to not see this as a decision. Every time a soul is saved, there is rejoicing in heaven. If this is all predeterimined, this is an awful game.

Certainly, salvation is God’s game. If you have ever tried to witness (rather than be a witness, as instructed) without the Holy Spirit, your most brilliant arguments and apologies fall on deaf ears. But the simplest child can move mountains with God behind him.

I am not sure that a belief in free will necessarily leads to a neutered God, as is oft suggestion in these discussions. God can be completely in control of the calling and the salvation, and still use us as instruments and still allow us to participate in the harvest. In my mind, I can see no way to balance the many different passages without taking this position.

Now, perhaps I am painting Calvanism with a broad stroke and getting the picture messed up.

Michael: that the Cross of Jesus potentially saved ABSOLUTELY NO ONE—I assume you mean that as each person has a choice, it is possible, although extremely improbable, that no-one would be saved. While I am convinced that this is highly improbable, it is actually comforting to think that God might have actually come to earth to save us despite the fact that none of us wanted to be saved. While the humanistic point would be that this is a waste, God deciding to do something, despite the fact that it might yield no results would both a) show his love for man and b) fit the idea that God does things He decides rather than looking at the outcome.

On a certain level, I believe this is true, but I also believe that there are instances where God has so presented himself, that only an insane person would choose not to follow. I think of the conversion of Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus as a rather rich example. As such, it is rather impossible, although the formula might allow it, that the cross saved no one.

As we head back through these mine fields, we will undoubtably see each side paint the other’s side as a charicature of what it is, when the actual points of view are not that far as neither side can explain away the scripture that supports the other.

Michael, Rob: One of the things that moved me over to the side of Calvinism was praying for the salvation of others. What are we praying for? For God to change their heart, to accept the truths of the Gospel. But under Arminianism, God doesn’t do that. Either He can’t or He won’t. Now, that doesn’t prove or disprove anything except a consistency of beliefs but it got me thinking about God working on people’s hearts. If God is going to do that, He’s going to do a good job of it, go all the way. The rest just fell into place.

The major difference between the two groups, in my opinion, is how we evangelize. When I was an Arminian (even if I didn’t use that label), I was responsible for the salvation of everyone around me. If I didn’t witness constantly (which I didn’t do) then people could die any moment without Christ and I would be responsible. My guilt was high. Every tactic, trick and method to reach people is OK. Powerlifting for Christ. Breaking bricks with your face for Jesus. Seventeen hour invitations where people come forward out of sheer exhaustion.

When I came to Calvinism, the relief was enormous. Salvation is God’s business. It’s His problem. I have an important part in it, and that is to tell the Good News to people. Calvinism doesn’t teach that we can shirk that responsibility but the rest is up to God.

Now I know many Arminians that don’t go to the extremes I spoke of, but the belief system inevitably leads in that direction I think.

Rob: The Vast difference is important to contemplate. Calvinism and Arminianism are- on some things- virtually identical. And the big difference isn’t election. Despite what you read on here from time to time, Arminians believe in election and predestination. They simply believe it is based on God’s foreknowledge of foreseen faith which he did not give as a gift, but which the believer can generate on his own. Calvinists believe God elects and predestinates out of his own GOOD pleasure.

The three most important differences (and the two that convinced me of the scriptural truth of Calvinism) are: 1) The extent and effect of total depravity, especially on the nature of the will, making it utterly impossible for human beings to choose to exercise saving faith or obedience without a prior operation on the will. 2) Regeneration precedes faith and is a work of the Holy Spirit and not the human will. Arminianism teaches that once we believe, then we are born again, and regeneration is triggered by the human will. (Thank you Mr. Finney.) 3) The extent of the intention of the atonement.

Gotta go to Lexington. I’ll blog tonight. Happy New Year’s Eve!

Rob: The Bible says the Cross is salvation for those who believe. To the unbeliever it is something else. The Arminian system teaches- as any consistent Arminian on here or elsewhere will admit- that the Cross of Jesus potentially saved ABSOLUTELY NO ONE. Scripture teaches that the Cross saves every single person it was designed to save, that it was sufficient to save all without limit, that all who believe will be saved without restriction. This is why the L of TULIP is wrongly called “Limited” Atonement and should be called Definate Redemption or Effective Redemption.

Arminianism: Salvation available to all who believe and limited to those who believe. Calvinism: Salvation available to all who believe and limited to those who believe.

Rob: Don’t worry. I won’t engage in any extensive debates on Calvinism. I will, however, attempt to straighten out the skewered baloney that passes for Calvinism. One slice of that baloney sandwich- sold by as many ignorant Calvinists as Arminians- is the idea that ELECTION=SALVATION. No. No. Nyet. No. Election is unto salvation by grace through faith (regeneration, discipleship, sanctification, perseverance) and above all BY Christ and his person/work. When I am challenged on Calvinism, it is almost always by someone who misrepresents this as if Calvinists do not believe in preaching, missions, invitations to faith, the necessity of faith, etc.

Your quote: or belief in Christ is not enough if you’re not one of the chosen (no fair taking the ‘you can’t “truly” believe if you’re not chosen route on this one). Again, just a basic distortion. Calvinism teaches that election produces regeneration which produces faith. There are no people running around believing who are not elect/regenerated. Calvinism explains why anyone who believes is saved. It is not a system that explains why some who believe are chosen and some who believe are not chosen. That is an Arminian twist to make election into something it is not. You guys need to realize the vast difference between us on the subject of regeneration. You think it follows faith. We say, like Eph 2:8-9, that it is a gift of God and premises faith ;-)

So, have you ordered the Wilkinson 8 Part video curriculum on the Life God Rewards? (No joke. Got a flyer on it in my email from Christianbook.com)

I have a new goal in life. I want to be a Chef for the mob.

Matthew: Obviously I have no idea how the U.S. State department has instructed people in this matter, but I would imagine the problem is the request for asylum. There appears to be a presumption that people may say whatever they need to say to get into the country, and the response may be the blanket approach to filtering that out.

We watched Bandits tonight. A great film! If you missed it go check it out. Tomorrow we are taking my daughter to meet her “friend’s” family for a few days visit. In the meantime Denise and I will get a day in Lexington.

A wonderful Piper quote with a truth in it that almost every one of my non-Calvinist friends thinks we don’t believe: “We must never think of the precious and glorious truth of unconditional election apart from Jesus Christ and his saving work on the cross. God chose people to be saved by Christ. The saving work of Jesus Christ was not an afterthought. Christmas, Good Friday, Easter were in the mind of God as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.”

I saw Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers tonight. Overall, I was not as happy as I was with the first. The film gets going nicely, but quickly loses pace. Much of the first hour is off. There are a few other rushed moments throughout the film, and I believe this is because Peter Jackson was so busy telling his story that he forgot Tolkein’s. I agree with Michael that the love triangle is not that bad. It, at least, gives us a reasoning for the elves coming to Helm’s Deep.

A couple of annoying points. The destruction of Faramir (temptation to ring) is absolutely unecessary and takes away from his nobility, although it adds a cool Nazg๛l scene. The bad thing about the Nazg๛l, however, is how to explain it away in book three, as it appears it survives on a limping beast (shot over Frodo’s shoulder). And Aragorn is basically Superman. He is almost dead, then as if he had not even been injured. Blown off a wall, and then up again.

The battle scenes were majestic, but there were a few problems. First, the elves appear to be longbowmen (at worst medium bows), so the tactic would have been to rain fire down on the enemy while they were still at a distance, rather than “wait until they saw the whites of their eyes.” They would be able to get off far more shots and do more damage. It would unlikely turn the tide, but it would have been a more realistic tactic. And, what is the obsession with chain mail? In medieval times, chain was primarily used against archers, at a distance, as the mail would deflect. with the enemies of Rohan being foot soldiers, it is more likely they would have worn scale or plate mail. I know, it was in the script.

The shining part of the film is the torn nature of Gollum/Smeagol. Lovely scenes of the two sides fighting each other. And, to state it twice, the battle scenes are magnificent.

I forgot to tell you guys this story. My in-laws met an Iraqi here in Madrid a couple of weeks ago. He’s seeking political asylum because he had been imprisoned and tortured in one of Hussein’s prisons. He even showed my in-laws the scars, which sounded pretty gross but real. Anyway, he asks my mother-in-law to call the US embassy here in Madrid to see if he could possibly get asylum in the US (I think his wife’s uncle lives in Detroit). We read the other day in USA Today that Bush wants scientists and military personnel from Iraq to help prove his case. This guy my in-laws met was an officer in the army. So, my mother-in-law, thinking that the US and this guy might be able to help each other out, calls the embassy in order to find out what the guy needs to do in order to set up a meeting with someone from the embassy. She got the run around and the guy on the phone was rude. What a bunch of idiots! Probably Clintonista appointments who could care less about National Security. I’m skeptical about the Iraqi, but wouldn’t you think that the US would like to find out something about this guy before dismissing it?

Judd: Chuck Colson is obviously going to hell. Where is Left Behind? Thief in the Night? ANY of the Billy Graham Films??? Veggietales??? The JABEZ MOVIE I AM FILMING?

I agree with Chariots of Fire. Top notch, but it takes a couple of viewings to get inside the real story. Produced by a Muslim. Go figure. Shadowlands is the movie I can rant on like you guys rant about LOTR. Really, other than the fact that Sir Anthony tries to portray Jack, it pretty much misses on every count. Gets very very very little right. Now Debra Winger does a great job, but the script really fails to understand Lewis. Brother Sun Sister Moon is a hippie flick and not all that substantial. Inherit the Wind is also a problem for me, in that it really misses history and portrays mythology, but then it never claims to be doing anything but that. I think Mr. Holland’s Opus and Stand and Deliver are better than the average teaching film, but I am still waiting for a good one that tells the truth. I personally have a much more positive view of the movie Contact, in that I see it as showing that atheism is an insufficient worldview that eventually must concede that it operates on faith.

The MSNBC piece on BenHen is pretty tough. Boil it all down and they down have much of the goods, though they can smell the skunk. BenHen takes in 100 million dollars a years (thanks for the donation Scott ;-) and what does he do with it? Pretty obviously spends it on BenHen’s personal party. Doesn’t appear to be corrupt, just totally self-consumed and riding the wave of worship he receives from the pathetic sheep who believe him. The stunning fact that there is just no evidence and everybody dies anyway just won’t deter people will it? When people are desperate they will believe hope against hope. I remember Dr. Boice’s message to Tenth Pres after he was diagnosed with Liver cancer. He said you can pray that God heals me, but he could have stopped me from getting it in the first place and that just doesn’t seem to be the best prayer for me and my family right now. Amen. I have many friends loyal to nuts like BenHen, who believe, as the lady says at the end of this piece, that BenHen is the “mediator.” Nuff said.

I would stay away from an M.Div if I wasn’t going into ministry. For instance, you could drive up to WKU and get an M.A. in Humanities and design your degree around Biblical studies and get a better degree in many ways than a seminary. And be done in 30+ hours as opposed to 90+++ for an M.Div. Remember that seminaries have to offer that M.Div with about a third of the courses oriented towards the practice of minsitry. A HUGE waste of time. I really wish I had gone to WKU for a 33 hour masters when Ron Nash and Bill Lane (and Michael Card!) were there. The M.Div overall is a disaster most everywhere. Degrees should be shorter and more focused.

Gordon-Conwell has some good distance things. There is an SBC distance school called Luther Rice that a lot of my friends have done M.Div and D.Min work through. Much better than the usual mills. Of course, Trinity Seminary in Newburg, Indiana is a huge distance operation, but it has the aroma of a mill, though they have made enoguh money to put a pretty classy program together. If I wanted the M.A. and not the ministry oriented stuff, I would do the Bahnsen degree in a heartbeat. Of course, they are YOU KNOW WHAT on the theological scale. But a very good operation.

That sucks. They aren’t even man enough to do it clean, eye-to-eye, without a dress on. My Dad got picked yesterday for 100 euros. Didn’t even feel them do it. I was ticked. At least in America they’ll put a gun to your nose and you can hand them the money.

The character of the Islamic extremists contines to be put on display for all the Arab world to see. Three Southern Baptist missionary doctors murdered like dogs by a man pretending to ahve a baby under his coat. The hospital has already made it clear they are going on with business as usual. This makes me think of my friends in UAE and hope we will continue to pray for all those Christians- nationals and missionaries- who are risking their lives for the Gospel.

This one is funny:

Good link to the degree in apologetics. I have been thinking about an M.Div program. Thus far, other than Southern, that offers most via Internet/Correspondence, I cannot find any (with Michael’s exception) that are available completely through correspondence. Of course the price for BTS is also welcoming. Any other ideas for M.Div, either Internet or Correspondence?

Imprimis has a “Best of Thirty Years” issue on-line with lots of great short pieces from many wonderful political, economic and social thinkers and writers. Check it out. And subscribe. It’s free.

Bill: You’ll find what you want here. It’s presuppositional/Van Tillian and not free, but I have lots of their stuff and the M.A. in Apologetics is better content than you would get anywhere I know of. If I didn’t have an M.Div, I would do that very degree right here. Here are the specifics of the degree.

Oh. There is one more “A” in AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGG. And the G goes before the H. (Ask Charlie Brown.)

The gal who is speaking for Cloneaid was just on Fox. Geezz. What truck stop is she working? And I saw the head of this cult earlier. A former auto racing journalist who was visited by aliens who explained it all. Watch a few less X-Files dude. And lose that pony-tail.

Watched Godfather III. Not as good as the other two, of course, but a good closing piece. Very much King Lear-ish. Wish it had about another 30 minutes of story in it.

Gregory: Beware the Dialogue Box. Unless, that is, you and Oddball tie one up. I want to read that!!

All: Is it possible to pursue a degree in Apologetics through distance learning? Does anyone know of a reputable source?

Greg: http://pub43.ezboard.com/bthedialoguebox is the URL to the Dialogue Box.

I have been thinking about this CloneAid thing. The media, of course, has seen this as no big deal. The part that bothers me is the “immortality through cloning” statement. The ultimate idea is we will eventually have adult clones. We will then take our brain and place it in the clone to make us immortal.

BTW: WHere is Dialogue Box???

Judson: The Star Wars article put an interesting set of wheels on some thoughts I had. One of the bad guys is called Nute Gunray, which is an obvious nod to Newt Gingrich. Lucas, like most Hollywood types, considered Newt as evil and was against his Contract with America, which is a large portion of the economic stimulus of the Clinton administration. Here is another interesting site for analysis.

Michael: The Jesus you linked looks like a young Mr. French.

Judson, Sure! I’d be honored. Thank you. I actually wrote that back in ‘99, but just decided this year to put it on a homemade Christmas card to give to some of our friends and co-workers. Then Michael wanted to post it, so there it is.

AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGG! Did I spell that right? Just terminated a fruitless debate with Wise Seeker in the Dialogue Box. Very frustrating. I’ll take Oddball and even Dr. Jerry anytime.

Denise: I finally caught your poem on the home page. It’s wonderful. May I have your permission to e-mail it to some folks (with your name on it of course)?

Something always slightly bothered me about the Star Wars movies (mainly after the “new” ones appeared). Somebody has finally put a finger on it.

Any comments on Chuck Colson’s list of “50 insightful films”? Additions? Subtractions?

With a new young’un to raise up, I’m finding great glee in revisiting some of the classic Disney films from the 50’s and 60’s. I’m starting to keep an eye out for some of the sentimental favorites from my grade school days. I’m also getting one or two of the films on Colson’s list (for me, not my kid ;-), based purely on the short description (e.g. “Repentance” and “Saving Grace”).

Classic Campolo from CT: He was debating conservative activist Gary Bauer, who responded, “I know this is hard for you to believe, but the enemy is not John Ashcroft, the enemy is Osama bin Laden.” “I’m not sure about that,” said Campolo, drawing gasps and not a few boos from the audience. “When you start taking away the rights of the American citizens, when you undercut the Bill of Rights in order to pursue security, I think you become more dangerous than bin Laden. I think that if this country goes down, it will not be because of the enemies that are outside this country. I think that if this country goes down, it’s because those within the country undercut our basic rights, undercut the principles that gave birth to this institution.”

From Relevant’s Blog: Not surprisingly, major chain stores have been reporting that sales are sluggish. However, this doesn’t mean what it seems to on the surface: Same-store sales were up just 1.7 percent compared with the same week a year ago. In other words, what they’re complaining about isn’t that we’re not spending more than usual for the holidays, or even that we’re spending less than last year — they’re complaining that we’re not spending enough “more” this year than we were last year to make them happy .

The new Jesus face. Anyone want to suggest who he looks like?

Promise Keepers puts more emphasis on the younger generation.

Saint Tony or Tony the Fool?

A religious cult? Or a science cult?

A few moments to blog before going to church. We are in Job chapters 9-10 in my Sunday a.m. Bible study. What a wonderful part of the Bible. I am glad I am going through it slowly. Sure are some wonderful things to savor. Job raises this issue: “If there is such a God (i.e. the God of the Bible) how can ANY person be in a right relationship with Him?” Job’s struggle in these chapters is on the razor’s edge. In one sense, scripture takes the qualities of God’s power, holiness and sovereignty and invites us to joyful worship. On the other hand, our human experience can look at these same things and despair! This is why the New Testament invites us to worship God for his attributes, but then shows us the face of God in Jesus Christ. He is that mediator that we must have if we believe in the God of the Bible. (Islam utterly fails here. How could one not join Job and despair if Allah was all we knew?)

At church I am preaching on Luke 12:15-21, but my subject is “A Measurement for the Year.” Really about how do we measure and evaluate our lives. What a different and unique and revolutionary standard we have in scripture, and what a great hope we have in the Gospel. The question “What are you worth?” is totally different when God asks it! I have some good illustrations today.

Heard Margaret Carlson say that Rev. Al Sharpton is going to be a nightmare for the Democrats in the upcoming Presidential season. I wonder how they will try to buy him off? I hear a number of Dems saying that it is going to be fight between Kerry and Leiberman. I wonder how those two will attempt to separate themselves from the other guy? Also heard Charlie Rangle explain to Cal Thomas that all Republican blacks are welcome in the congressional black caucus….until after the meal. Then they talk about the Democratic agenda and Republicans have to leave. How sweet. He delighted in saying that the GOP is ALL white in the congress. Is that true? Sad sad sad. Of course, someone pointed out that the Dems work 10x as hard to defeat any black Repeublican.

Gregory: Your experience with that book has been replicated dozens of times. There are some people who are very impressed with TC until they hit that book. Thankfully it is out of print. I should have dedicated my article on “I Want To Be a Black Man” to TC, who epitomizes the evangelical envy of oppressed groups.

RonH: I was so glad I could take my son to that movie and know that he saw a much different portrayal of the Vietnam soldier than I received growing up. A fine fine movie. The choral number over the credits is a real gem.

I watched “Goodfellas” last night. A great movie with several interesting levels, particularly the experience of family and community that drives the characters. I’m going to try and see Gangs tomorrow or Tuesday.

Oh yeah, as a U of L fan to all my UK fan friends, welcome to our world. Little brother kicked your…..

I was just thinking…..do you think CBA bookstores really ought to be carrying…......The Bible?

Michael: I had never really heard of Campolo until we had a “bible study” using “20 Hot Potatoes Christians are Afraid to Touch.” I found that he all but denies the diety of Christ, fervently defends homosexuality and is very anti-death penalty. While he makes some good points, there are also portions that are easy to tear down with rather well known scripture. I had to ask why we were even using the book as a guide for the topics we were going to talk about. As it turned out, the chapter headings were used for some topics, and the rest was quickly discarded.

With NPR doing Jabez, it just means that the idea of blending sorcery and the bible is not offensive, the bible is.

We have been on vacation at Table Rock Lake (Holiday Island near Eureka Springs Ark.) We had 12 inches of snow for Christmas Eve and Christmas. The kids loved it !!! So did Beth (my wife). The roads cleared up by Friday and we were able to drive the one hour trip to Branson. We saw LOTR TTT on the IMAX. !!! Oh man !!! LOTR on the BIG screen. My family enjoyed it. Following the book or not.

Sorry that was without internet access. NOT. It was a relaxing time with immediate family for Christmas. And the foot of snow. Watched Holiday Inn, It’s a Wonderful Life, and White Christmas with the family on video.

Merry belated Christmas to the Boar’s Head Tavern gang.

Back home safely. Now have sermons and lessons to type. I wonder if anyone would yield the point that a filmmaker in Jackson’s position does have to be held accountable for faithfulness to the text, but also has a responsibility to make a movie that can be enjoyed and supported by the non-reading masses who have never come near the text? I think Jim’s analysis is right on the money, but to me we are basically saying that one guy finally got the nerve and the $$ and the effort to step up to the plate and try to do this gargantuan thing some justice on the screen and he fell short. Well no doubt. Is that a surprise? It suffers some a lot the process, no doubt. But the very act of transition of such a mighty text to another medium is going to be a Procrustean bed of a thing. I am imagining what really almost anyone else would have done. Imagine a Spielberg or Lucas effort!! Or that guy who made the 5th element. Or Disney! Or anyone else who would have turned the whole thing into two bad two hour movies with a politically correct cast. (Whoopi Goldberg as Gandalf. Spike Lee as Legolas. Al Gore as an Ent. Ellen Degeneres as Arwen. More suggestions?) I’m still applauding this flawed effort, and it will send me back to the books for the first time in two decades, and it won’t make me mad when I see all the differences.

Jim: Your review on TTT is dated 1909-06-30. I’m guessing that’s wrong.

I understood why the Ents’ decision to make war on Isengard was made so quickly; they only had a half an hour before the film ended. I’ll concede things like that because it would take way too long to develop something like that if they went exactly the way the books were written. Besides, the Ents take a really long time to do everything so I was glad that they went off so quickly. I really hope they don’t leave out the entire ending of ROTK. I loved it that Pippen and Merry came back as a couple of bad-a**es. I’ve been watching the cast commentary of FOTR. I guarantee it is way better than the stuffy director’s commentary. The four hobbits are hilarious. It appears that Billy B. and Dominic M. tried to teach Elijah Wood a game that they just made up as they went a long. It was so funny.

Michael, we stayed at a monastery the night before last and I wanted to get you something monkish, but as it turns out, the church connected to the monastery is ground zero for the virgin Guadalupe stuff. Yikes! She was on everything I looked at. It was disgusting. There has been a lot of money put into that place, too. It’s hard for me to see all of the intricate designs on vestments and clothes for the virgin doll (or whatever it is). I just can’t believe that Jesus would appreciate all of that stuff when there is so much other work to be done.

I hope everyone had a great holiday. I’ve been busy with all the various time-wasters I could come up with for vacation, until the mrs. decided to harness my energy to help her get ready for entertaining. My thought for this year’s Christmas is this: remember, the point of Christmas is that we have a God who showed up.

Judson, thanks for pointing out the article on the CBA. I propose that we take the radical anti-abortion approach; we should blow up “Christian” bookstores and target their managers for assasination. Not only will we be doing good, but we’re less likely to get prosecuted.

My review of The Two Towers is up. It’s long and whiney. For those who want to cut to the chase, here’s the highlights:

Peter Jackson thinks he has a better tale to tell than Tolkien’s book told. And he thinks this both because he is arrogant, and because he misunderstands the psychology and motivation of both humans and elves in Tolkien’s world.

In Tolkien’s world, at key places men acted valiantly and with honor because their actions were informed and influenced by something outside themselves. Thus Faramir isn’t tempted by the ring at all, because he immediately sees its danger. Jackson doesn’t understand this, because he has the typical movie industry view of man: that all people everywhere just sit around all the time looking out for themselves, until occasionally something (usually sex, a desire for power, or some outrage) makes them do the right thing. Tolkien would have thought such a view of people stupid and boring. Jackson probably thinks the same of Tolkien’s honorable men.

Judson: I’m with you on the CBA article. I’m one of the folks who walked out of Christian Bookstores twenty years ago and never went back. I refuse to wade through piles of dreck to find something worthwhile. Thank God for Amazon. And Michael, I want to see that novel. I love the premise, and you’ll be in very good company. Sue Grafton’s main character is a semi-relapsed Catholic, Morris West uses the papacy as the backdrop for his novels – neither of those folks have had any trouble selling books. Good writing trumps loopy propaganda any day.

And speaking of Good Writing… I’m currently reading Idols for Destruction by Herbert Schlossberg. Cowabunga dude. Next up, The Impulse of Power by Michael Kelly. My wife started reading this, (unusual for her), and raved about it to me. Thank God for Amazon. (Oh, I said that already, didn’t I?)

Everyone: Good points all, but IMO let’s just be grateful we have LOTR! And that millions of kids like my son are now reading a book they would have never read instead of watching MTV. Remember Ralph Bakshi (sp?) was all we had! (And also realize no Christian publisher would have ever published LOTR!!!!) There may be more hope than you think. I read an iterview with Elijah Wood who said ROTK would be the longest. 3.5 hours easy and they felt they could make it as long as needed since the audience was obviously there.

Judosn: O man! What a wonderful essay. And everything just said perfectly. I have two great characters (and supporting characters) from which I have tried to write novels. I have some really good chapters. But the characters are just too HUMAN. That discourages me about as much as any one thing in writing. One of my characters is a former prof of New Testament at Baylor who lost his career over an affair with a student and has now become a professional investigator speacializing in the religious aspects of crime. I could outline ten great novels I could tell with this guy, but if I resolve his basic conflicts the story ENDS! Hope everyone reads Judd’s link.

On the road again in a couple of hours. Denise and I will do the “dictation sermon prep method.” I dictate and she writes. Peace to you folks and I will blog later when the sermon is done.

Matthew: I’m sure they’ll cut it short. I remember hearing something to that effect on one of the extended DVD commentaries. The Scouring of the Shire will probably be relegated to a 15-second flash, or completely relegated to a 30-second flash in the next extended DVD set. A pity.

I also bet that the mellowing of Eowyn will be omitted. Probably not PC enough. The idea of a woman “finding herself” by giving up warlikeness to be a healer probably won’t fly. Especially since they bungled Faramir. No telling where that story will go.

Can’t wait to see it. Pray that we can find a babysitter ;-) Otherwise I’ll have to take my wife out of work for a few hours some afternoon while he’s in daycare!

The Legolas horse thing was cheesy, judging from the trailer I saw.

Sounds good, Michael. You might need to E-mail that to me.

I can’t believe that no one has mentioned that terrible CGI scene when Legolas was supposed to swing up on that white horse. That was terrible. I could have done better with MS Paint. Is anyone else worried that the end of the third book might get cut short? I loved the return to the shire and I’m afraid that the estructionday foay hetay ingray will be the end of the next movie.

I know this is bandied about a lot in here. But this article which I just stumbled across bothers me more than just about anything I’ve yet read. An excerpt:

“I thank my God that William Shakespeare did not write for a CBA publisher…”

Michael: I agree that recreating the book is impossible. There are necessary omissions and tweaking of the story to cover omissions. Rewriting the story is another matter, and if the point is to make money, there are lots more things Jackson could put in there to appeal to people, like sex for example. Besides, picking apart movies is a large part of the fun. Also, Liv Tyler is not a great actress but I doubt she was chosen for this part for her acting ability. The buxom elf just doesn’t cut it (although appealing in other respects).

Judson: Just finished my next reply to wise seeker. Very frustrating (more so than Dr. Jerry). He thinks the sheer volume of proof texts which are off-topic will persuade people. Henry Hill is different. He seems to have attacks of rationality where people have some pretty good dialogue with him, then he just gets insulting again.

RonH: Yeah, Aragorn with the horse and Faramir are bad too. The Faramir thing is probably worse since the Arwen junk is just additions, but Faramir’s character was completely altered. Like I said to Michael, I don’t mind some changes for the sake of fitting it into a movie, what I resent is the director or writers thinking they know better than the author.

Campolo was an influential person in my life in the early ministry years, but his pimping for the Democrats is a low point for evangelicals. Who can forget him yukking it up with Clinton at the Ron Brown funeral? Or his rehabilitation of Clinton after the Lewinsky affair? Campolo is a man without an anchor except the adoration he recieves for being brash. He built his rep on being a solid evangelical, and spends his capital advocating homosexual marriage. Pathetic.

David Meece is a musical genius and it is a shame that his career short circuited. I hope it has worked out well for him. The current Steve Green album has a Rob Matthes piece called “Pleasures of the King” that is Piper inspired and wonderful. I am also listening to Niclole Nordeman on the recommendation of Rob at Discerning.

BTW, when I was in this used DVD place, they had a lot of LPs on the wall. YIKES! I have some serious cash at my house. The original lp for U@ Unforgettable Fire was $30! I am in real need of getting rid of about 400 LPs. About a third secular circa 1972 onwards. The rest Christian, jazz, classical. I’ll hold on to some of that stuff, but I am having a fire sale asap.

My in-laws said that NPR did a big thing of the Jabez empire, complete with MIRACLE HEALING stories. It won’t go away. Americans want to be blessed blessed blessed.h

A major Newsweek piece on Depak Chopra is out there somewhere. I am seeing a lot of SPIRITUALITY stuff. We are awash in the middle ages again.

Campolo gets a nod from Christianity Today. While the article talks about the criticisms of Campolisms like “Jesus is God because he is human,” and “not everyone who is saved by Him is aware that He is doing it.” There lovefest is summed up by the following:

Perhaps not to the same degree, Campolo’s lasting influence can be seen by the lives committed at the end of his speeches.

On his tombstone, Campolo says, he wants a list of everyone he’s inspired to go into full-time ministry. Charismatic leader or not, he won’t get his wish. They just don’t make tombstones that big. – Humility in action. Go Tony! By the way, the line is, “they’rrrrrrrrreeee greeeeeeeeaaaaaaaatttttttt!”

Michael: “Just a woffer theen meent, sir?”

RE: The Dialogue Box. I’m also a bit baffled by Henry Hill. I’ve met plenty of militant atheists who think Christians are soft and stupid. (Actually, I have a lot more empathy for people like this than I do for some Christians- even friends- I’ve met). However, I don’t think I’ve ever met one who on one hand decries prosetylization by anyone, yet on the other hand seems hell-bent on converting people to atheism. Hmm. A puzzle.

Bill- I can’t quite get a handle on Wise Seeker. After reading something from him/her like “Paul was an idiot” (or something to that effect), I think I pretty much decided that any attempt at talking with him/her was definitely throwing pearls to swine. No, more like throwing million dollar bills to a common garden slug. Better to salt the old slug.

It’s quite simple, really. Cause and effect. The lingerie Barbie leads to the pregnant Barbie.

I think I know what the world’s (or your typical Wal-Mart customer- same thing) problem is. I think that sex and pregnant ladies are simply too beautiful for the world to behold. So we’d rather ban them, or at least pretend they don’t exist.

Tongue in cheek on the lingerie Barbie, of course.

Why is a clone scheme by a cult who things humans are designed by aliens a RELIGIOUS cult? Excuse me but isn’t that a SCIENCE cult? (Do you guys thinks it’s the real deal? I don’t.)

I was really impressed today with how our possessions have become an extension of ourSELVES and we are trying desperately to create some kind of security by surrounding ourselves and dressing ourselves and decorating ourselves with STUFF. Jesus spoke so clearly that life does not consist of POSSESSIONS. Our life is an expression of the Creative power of God in bringing us to be, sustaining us in grace/mercy and also of the redemptive LOVE of God expressed in his own Glory revealed in Christ Jesus. None of this has any relevance to possessions at all. And the best reflection of whether we understand it is in our own relationships, our worship and our stewardship of life.

Does the phease “too much Christmas” mean anything to anyone else? Ugh. One more eggnog and it will be “Meaning of Life” revisited. I am ready for some semblance of normal life. We passed on “Gangs.”

To you LOTR purists: my daughter says that the Arwen bit is her favorite part of the movie. Given that if LOTR had been made for the purists, the crowd would have consisted of mostly overweight, zit-faced, bespeckled, poorly dressed nerdish bachelors of various kinds clumping together in a male-only group date, what was really all that wrong with investing a scene or two in creating something that brings in millions of the fairer sex and generates billions more $$$? The point is to make money, and hey Bill- you really don’t believe the point of a movie is to recreate the book do you? ;-)

I have puchased Goodfellas, and in a triumph of Flea market research, also landed the Godfather Trilogy for an unbeatable price. Other than that, I am holding on to the cash for a while. One of my resolutions is to spend less on books and read all of some of the sets I have, esp Edwards, Owen, Lewis, Spurgeon, Bunyan, Fuller, Watson, Ryle, Schafer. Also resolving to write my sermons into book chapters. I can do it I can do it I can do it.

I am looking forward to getting home tomorrow and back to familiar surroundings. How does anyone stand to move in with parents or in-laws for extended periods of time.

ScottW: Loved them all. Let me say that I would pay, right now, $25 for a Pay per View Aguilara vs. Osbourne IF each girl could have some corner help a la wrestling. I want Brittney Spears in their for Kelly.

Also, I think eating tin foil is a charming piece of multi-culturalism.

RonH: That is a wonderful essay, but can’t believe its on Ooze! I wonder if I can ever start where that fellow starts and say something worth saying, and not just to the choir. (Are you guys the choir?)

Oh- new CDs. Nocole Nordeman, the Normals (bad choice) and David Meece who I have really missed and am thrilled to hear again.

Matthew: I am making plans to try and come see you after school on Tuesday 1/7. What do you think? It would be dinner Pizza and a load of Tom Merton. You’ll need two free shelves.)

Scott: Did I make my displeasure with Arwen clear enough over on the Dialogue Box, or do you think some people missed it? I don’t mind getting a sore butt sitting through 3 hours of LOTR II but when 20 minutes of it are imaginary flashbacks or dreamscapes of Liv Tyler acting through scenes which aren’t even in the book, just to satisfy some unwritten rule about having romance in all movies just makes me mad. It ruined Attack of the Clones also. People don’t see these types of movies for their romantic parts. It’s just dead weight.

Sorry, I’m a little hot after answering Wise Seeker over at the DB with his “Poverty and Suffering are from the Devil” thread.

A couple more fun links…

The CIA is apparently involved in anal probes. Eric Cartman surrenders.

We always knew why celebrity kids hated their parents. That’s OK. We hate them, too.

A NC teenybopper who received a brand-spanking new kidney from his teacher shows that the investment wasn’t completely wasted by stealing a forklift.

“Equal rights and equal opportunity mean just that, they do not mean preferential treatment. Preferences, no matter how well intended, ultimately breed resentment among the nonpreferred. And preferential treatment demeans the achievements that minority Americans win by their own efforts. The present debate over affirmative action has a lot to do with definitions. If affirmative action means programs that provide equal opportunity, then I am all for it. If it leads to preferential treatment or helps those who no longer need help, I am opposed.”

It’s Link Fun Friday, with Scott!

Looks like the Scots know that the best way to deal with a rat is to drown it with milk.

I’ve heard about it, but now I’ve seen it, and I can truly say… I’m still not interested in Lingere Barbie. Or Barbie of any kind, for that matter.

Forgive me father, for we are sinning…

Warning: North Korea has threatened to Destroy the World. Those concerned about this should send me all their money in cash. In exchange, I’ll personally contact Benny Hinn’s “Ministry” and ask them to pray for you. E-mail me for the address.

Looks like some members of the Methodist Church are trying to get rid of that pesky virgin birth doctrine.

Michael S: Here’s a new punishment to try.

What better way to thank the Chinese for the Frankenfish than by sending them a boatload of South America’s fun aquatic fare.

Next time you give a Chrismas sermon – make sure you’ve got security guards around the Nativity.

Attention: State Government of Connecticut. Let me explain the meaning of the word tact. As in “complete lack of”.

Soft and fluffy rap mogul Suge Knight asks “Who checks up on probation violations anyway?” LA Police reply “We Do.”

Latest Fashion Accessory: children. Hey – they have no value in the womb… why should they have value out of it?

Christina Aguilera: My Hero... Now if only she could meet up with Britney Spears…

Just a few minutes left to buy the Town of Bridgeville!

Bill: That is what I do, as well. Many times, I go to last 50 if I am”way behind.”