Tim

Oh I am definitely nuts; Kurt will vouch for that. ;-)

Anyway, I’m not saying that we should completely ban smoking so that no one can ever smoke (though I can’t say that I never get the urge to take over the world and do that when I get sick from the stuff); people do have a right to smoke. However, I also have a right to be in smoke free air.

Anywho, it would just be nice if I didn’t have to be around it so much. Places around here have smoking and non smoking sections, but that doesn’t usually help. There is one restaurant (my favourite one here too, but not because of this) that actually has a glass wall that separates the smoking from the nonsmoking and I have yet to be able to even smell the stuff there. It would just be nice if this was true for more places.

They need to make a cigarette that isn’t harmful to smoke or to breathe it’s second hand smoke.

Did y’all know that cigarettes are the only (as far as I know) product that does NOT have to list the ingredients on the label?

“He’s portrayed as unsure of himself, depressed, and scared most of the time…” I won’t claim to be a Luther expert, but I took Luther in seminary from Timothy George and have read several of the contemporary biographies. These days, the scholarly picture of Luther is much more in line with the doubting, scared and depressed Luther, particularly leading up to and immediately following Worms. R.C. frequently mentions this in his talks on Luther. Luther about broke down on a number of occasions in his life, including the night before Worms. So the movie may have been trying to get away from some of the mythological and over-confident Luthers of the past. Luther was frequently a mess, and he certainly shouldn’t be judged only by “Here I Stand” and “A Mighty Fortress.” He lived a life of intense ups and downs, psychological turmoil, many doubts and fears….and beer. And fart jokes. And more beer.

Well, I gotta say – I was a little disappointed, but not as disappointed as I thought I would be. Good portrayal of Luther’s passions were few and far between, while his message on how God wouldn’t send people to hell and is a God of love seemed too 90’s for my taste.

Joseph Fiennes was the wrong guy to do this. Luther is a human being, which is good – just not the right human being. He’s portrayed as unsure of himself, depressed, and scared most of the time, which just doesn’t describe any Germans I know.

And the music… good Lord was it oppresive. The sound mix was just terrible, and I could barely hear the conversations in the movie.

Fortunately, they did get several things right, and did so with gusto. Unfortunately, they surrounded those few things with other things they did wrong, and I just can’t recommend this movie except to extreme fans of Luther who don’t mind him badly portrayed by the guy who nearly ruined Shakespeare for me back in 98.

It’s pouring rain, so the dog and I are waiting for a break in the action.

Here’s Colson’s review of Luther.

Posting note: I edit my posts a lot, and one thing I try to do is eliminate the word “you” when in a semi-intense discussion- unless I want it to stay there. Note the difference in these two sentences:

“If you support smoking laws, you are trying to take away my rights.”
“Smoking laws take away my rights.”
“Those who support smoking laws should consider the rights of anyone to smoke.”

Which sentence is more likely to prompt the feeling that this has gotten too personal? (Do I sound like a teacher trying to show students how to argue.? Good.)

I hadn’t attended a high school football game in at least 16 years. It was a huge part of my Friday nights growing up, and our school was a perennial winner. Then, as a youth minister, it was just mandatory to be there. And eventually, I really learned to dislike it, not only as a culture in small towns, but in other ways. Football can be an exciting game, or, like last night, a game of inches, penalties, stopped clocks, poor plays, etc. (In contrast- at least for me- even the most boring baseball game likely will have some statistical matter or individual performance to hold my attention. Every confrontation between pitcher and batter is, to me, a new game.) But what was great for me was to be invited out by guys, to just hang out and be one of the boys again. That was a nice gift to me, and when we arrived, there were more guys I knew, so 8 of us hung out and laughed and had a great time. I’m even invited back.

The score was Rockcastle County 49, Clay County 6. Like many of our Ky mountain schools, Clay County is a 125% basketball school. No other program- not band, choir, football, cross country- matters at all. Here is a school of probably 1500 kids, with 30 football players, and it was evident that the lack of a real program in the middle schools puts the coach at a serious disadvantage. Few kids, little talent, a sad lack of physical conditioning. I cannot imagine what a coach in a situation like this does to build that program. I mean, you are going to lose. Just on the physical side of the game, you don’t have the kids to stay up with even a mediocre team. So it is just a beating, week after week after week. I admire their tenacity and dedication. But it must be a tough life, getting fat kids up for another whuppin’ next week.

Bill: I’ve not watched much Dr. Who, but I’d be skeptical, were I a fan. To start with, its really hard to take something that was good a long time ago and then to do it right. Also, the writer is the same guy who wrote for the show “Queer as Folk.” Think the good Dr. will be showing a whole new side?

Obviously I don’t know how to use the links in MT.

On the smoking thing again, I’ve had occasion to visit a few restaurants here in NY the last few day. Haven’t been eating out much. The difference was immediately noticeable. Restaurants with a smoking and non-smoking sections are a joke, since smoke doesn’t conveniently stay in the designated area. To be able to sit anywhere at all in a restaurant and not be subjected to cigarette smoke is terrific. People should be able to smoke in their home (but if they have children I hope they are smart enough not to) or their car but not in public areas and definitely not at the entrance of buildings. (the latter is pretty much being ignored so far).

For those classic British scifi fans among us This is good news.

Really Amanda,
My post had nothing to do with you. I do not know you or anyone here well enough to get mad at them. I may think some are nuts, but I’m sure the feeling is mutal. (ACRONYM)

I do not like the PC police and I (me personally) would rather live where I am intruded upon then be in world where everything is controlled. Where I work, people used to smoke in meetings, well that was banned,, then smoking indoors was banned, then in company cars, and the next step is to ban it on company property everywhere followed by the forced banning in the lives of it’s employees totally. Even I will agree to the 1st 3 moves that happened as I also do not like to be around smoke (unless I am smoking—still not a smoker though!!). But where this leads is total control and that is fine if it isn’t your sacred cow, but when it starts there, it will move. My company asled my doctor for my health records, he contacted me,, I refused even though other than arthritis I am quite healthy.

Buy really, that was not directed at you at all. I assure you if it was I would have mede it clear, I am far from shy.

But I do apologize for making you think that. I am sorry.
Tim

Tim

I’m late, I know, but haven’t been getting on as much since I started working and with doing the theatre as well.

Anyway, Tim, smoking is quite a bit more intrusive than wearing a sweater. It doesn’t stay in one place and if you’re in an enclosed building, it’s harder to get away from than a sweater.

1) smoking is detrimental to the smoker’s health AND the person who’s around them.

2) it’s harder to get away from, especially if you’re in an enclosed area.

3) if I knew that you had an allergy to wool, I would be more than happy to avoid wearing it if I knew I was going to be around you. Smokers aren’t generally quite so polite (well, generally not the ones who are strangers to you and who are sitting in the smoking section of a restaurant) and non smoking sections aren’t always much help.

4) If I came across as narcissistic and ‘holier than thou’, I apologise, that was not my intention.

5) I’m not saying that smokers shouldn’t be allowed to smoke, I just don’t want it done around me. I know that’s not necessarily a realistic thing, that’s simply how I feel and I have a right to say you can’t smoke around my house; it’s my abode, after all. Smoke at your own place if you want to. I know plenty of people who smoke; most of the cast and crew at the theatre where I’m volunteering smoke. I’ve not said a word to them, but I avoid the area where they smoke.

6) So why don’t I avoid places where people can smoke? I certainly don’t go to pubs nad taverns and clubs, but in this town, EVERY single stupid restaurant allows smoking and a lot of non restaurant haunts do as well. It’s rather hard to avoid. I might as well just stay confined to my home and never leave.
6) I don’t drink caffeine either; gave it up in ‘97, mainly because I’m a singer.

7) Sorry if I seem rough, but the posting rubbed me the wrong way I guess.

Maybe my fondness of the KJV is just the poetics? Or that it was all I heard until I was a lot older. Possibly it’s because I like to write songs and I am always interested in style? I do use other versions to help me understand things (some study bible), but as rule it’s meaning comes through to me.

Or possibly the great mysteries of the Bible just whiz right over my head..?

I’m somewhat of an armchair Greek scholar (being a philosophy major, one learns a bit of classical Greek), but I had a lot of my misconceptions corrected by D.A. Carson’s book Exegetical Fallacies, which I highly recommend.

Jesse notes how some people tend to eisegete when a text uses a certain word, e.g., when Paul says agape rather than philia or eros. All of a sudden, agape becomes the expression for “selfless love” and philia becomes a lesser sort of love, and people read a whole host of meanings into a text.

I think Jesse is old enough to drink though…

I’ve been wondering what I should do after college. My two options are going onto graduate school in order to earn my Ph.D (I want to study at USC or at Notre Dame) or going straight into seminary (any suggestions?). I don’t know if asking a bunch of half-drunk white Southern Calvinists is wise, but I figured I’d ask.

well Birched . . . hmmm . . . I kinda like that.

There are a bunch of men who go to high school football games on Friday nights around here, and I have been invited to tonight’s excursion. Even though this is a game with the blasphemous additions of a clock and semi-naked women jumping up and down on the sidelines to hold the crowd’s interest, I’m going, just for the fellership. c ya’ll later. GO CUBBIES!!!!

Jesse: I did read that one, but I was actually thinking of this page about the word “Easter.” Without making any statement regarding the merits of that particular essay (since I don’t really care), I note with amusement another article on that site that states that the KJV is the easiest to read of any translation out there. Easier than the NASB, the NKJV, the NIV, any of them. How did they determine this, you ask? Using a test that completely disregards the familiarity of words and concentrates instead on how many words are in each sentence and how many syllables are in each word.

Hey – do you suppose? Nah, that’s not a young Jack Chick, is it?

So “Yes verily” is easier to read than “Of course they did” because it is shorter, and “cometh” is just as easy to read as “comes” because it doesn’t hit the three-syllable or nine-letter marks. And apparently despite the nine-letter problem, “plainness of speech” is better than “boldness of speech,” and just never you mind about the meaning of the original language. The KJV is plain, you see, and that’s good!

For that matter, the recent discovery that the human brain easily handles many situations in which internal letters are swapped within words means that tihs sneetcne is mroe esaliy raed tahn etiehr eaxpmle, rgiht?

Thou shalt gag me with thy spoon.

JS: So very, very true. This is the backside of one of the GREATEST things available free on the net: The Strong’s numbering system and dictionaries. Not just armchair greek scholars, but armchair english Bible scholars are convinced on can demonstrate enormous prowess by separating this word from that. Greek isn’t consistent, and it also doesn’t follow meaning along hard and fast lines without regard for context, etc. It is a constant calculation on a teacher/preacher’s part to say “what the Greek says is….” This isn’t useless, but it is often overplayed, especially by guys from schools that do a good job of stressing the importance of language- like DTS. I grew up listening to DTS guys like R.B. Thieme chase the real meanings of greek words. (Hey- the REEL TO REEL tapes were FREE!) But actual use of language can never just be word study. Not in isolating meaning or in finding subtleties.

Buy that young man an ice cold Dr. Pepper in the bottle.

Phillip, are you referring to this page? Because it starts out with a gem: Bible believers are constantly bombarded by Greek experts, who claim to have special insight to the hidden nuggets of the Greek N.T., which cannot be found in the plain, ordinary English of the King James Bible.

Yes, because the plain, ordinary English that I speak is so full of words like “whither” and “peradventure”.

Actually, this page makes a very valuable point. Armchair Greek scholars are fond of making sermons over the supposed differences between Greek terms like agape v. philia, or logos v. rhema. But in reality, the Greek text is nowhere near as consistent as we’d like, and obsession over this kind of detail leads to much weirdness.

George Plimpton dead at 76. I’ve often enjoyed his writing – particularly about his stint with the Bruins

Michael: According to the av1611.org guy, the KJV is right even when the original text is wrong. (!)

And I thought you were going to be having some new blogging freedom here soon? Dusting off some powerful old brew? I’m still staying tuned. ;-)

Roger Ebert has reviewed “Luther”, and gives it a middling review. His basic points:

1. Luther just isn’t portrayed very accurately. Joseph Fiennes shows us a whimpy, whiny, depressed monk who’s in touch with his feelings. Christianity Today (on a side note) faults Luther for preaching little more than “Jesus Loves Me” and “God wouldn’t send people to hell”. Hmm…

2. The world is sanitized. This monk is cleaned and manicured better than any other monk in the world…. except the Internet Monk.

3. Most major events in Luther’s life are treated as obligatory stops on the biography express, giving us little idea of the weight of the events. Ebert specifically mentions Luther’s marriage to Katherine von Bora as an example.

4. On the plus side, Peter Ustinov gives a great performance, as does Johnathan Firth.

Ebert’s conclusion: “I don’t know what kind of movie I was expecting “Luther” to be, or what I wanted from it, but I suppose I anticipated that Luther himself would be an inspiring figure, filled with the power of his convictions. What we get is an apologetic outsider with low self-esteem, who reasons himself into a role he has little taste for.”

I’ll tell ya’ll more after I see it tonight.

Well, my daughter now joins the ranks of DRIVERS. One more of lifes hurdles overcome. One more big CHA-CHING at the insurance company.

I have far more appreciation for the KJV as a translation than for anything in the dynamic equivalence family. My preferences are strongly for the RSV/ESV, then the original NASB and the 1901ASV, and then the KJV. After that, I would probably be looking at someone like Moffat or Barkley or Wuest who had a good grasp of how to write greek translations that are useful for study, if not for public reading.

The literary sense of the KJV translators is unsurpassed. Their imprint upon the direction of later translations is obvious and will always be the standard. One need only look at the awkward literary clumsiness and attempts at contemporaniety in many modern DE translations to appreciate the KJV. As a significant piece of English, it is the standard by which others will always be judged. But as a translation, there are problems.

These problems with the KJV must be admitted and faced. Primarily, it uses a highly inferior Greek Text, the textus receptus, and does not benefit from the modern era of textual discoveries. This is a major and substantial issue, though it affects very few actual important texts or verses. Also, the KJV translators were tremendously biased and this bias can’t be glossed over because it didn’t just slip in- it was brought in and forced into the text. Just the word “bishops” gives you a clue that sometimes the KJV translators had an agenda that must be faced. And, for me, there is the issue of a 400 year old english vocabulary. In reading Shakespeare, I need to adjust. In reading an English Bible, the translation has to adjust, at least modestly.

As for the NKJV, it is a good translation, but uses the Majority Text as a Greek text, and this is inferior to the Eclectic text, simply by the fact that it uses numbers of manuscripts to decide a passage, with no accounting for the age or reliability of the manuscript. Again, this has few actual results that matter, but it is a real issue.

Alistair Mcgrath’s book on the history of the KJV, In The Beginning, is a great read and very helpful for a person who wants to appreciate the KJV, but also understand- rationally- its place in the world of English teranslations. Leland Ryken’s The Word of God in English is an endorsement of the ESV, but is strongly pro KJV in comparison to the NIV and other DE translations.

Tim: I, too, hold a certain affection for the KJV, but I use the NKJV as my daily book. It keeps most of the same poetry, but exchanges “thou” “art” and “thy” for their modern equivalents. (“Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.”) I keep thinking I might start using the ESV, but then I read the same verse, and I don’t know again. “Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.” I miss the “yea”.

It occurred to me only a few days ago that I haven’t read an AV in many years. I’ll have to ensure that I do, regularly, for the kids’ sake. As long as there is a sizable contingent of KJV folks alive in the world, I want to ensure my kids grow up with it so that it seems as comfortable to them as it does me. ;-)

Scott: Robert Palmer flew under the radar for a lot of folks, but I suspect that anyone that listens to his Addictions, Volumes 1 and 2, would be surprised to recognize as many songs as they do. Plus, the liner notes are hilarious; He was a prideful man. Anyway, I’m a minor fan.

Tim: I’m similar. I hold no personal ill will toward the KJV. It’s a right nice translation, and it’s got an air of earthly authority that the New Living International Super-Special Spirit-Filled Women’s Couple Bible just doesn’t carry with it.

By the way… gonna have to face it you’re dead. Bye, Robert. I liked your models.

In honor of al the dead horses in here.. singing horses.

Uh,, this doesn’t sound good…

Kurt if you are out there, IM me.

Red Sox: I don’t care. I can’t hear you. lalalalalalalalalalalalalal (fingers in ears). Please don’t make me care. As soon as I care, they are finished. As long as I show no more than disinterested intermittent curiousity, they have a chance.

Quite some time ago I emailed the folks over at av1611.org about 3 or 4 times, they never replied.

I forgot now what I had asked them, but I remember some pretty wild comments from their site.

I am a KJV guy, but I also use other translations. Just seems to me that it’s written in a much more poetic way and I like the way it flows, along with that I think it is correct,, whoaaa, down dead horsey.

psalm 23:4 KJV

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

And some not so poetic translations of the same verse…
The Message
Even when the way goes through Death Valley, I’m not afraid when you walk at my side. Your trusty shepherd’s crook makes me feel secure.

Contemporary English:
I may walk through valleys as dark as death, but I won’t be afraid. You are with me, and your shepherd’s rod [1] makes me feel safe

That’s so hurtful, Michael.

For the strong-stomached Red Sox fan. A complete history of the matter. (I was in Fenway for the ‘86 AL pennant win.)

From one of Michael’s links:

For example, a church with 200 members will be in a one-hour church service for 12,000 collective minutes, Chapman said.

With that sort of creative accounting, I smell a job at the OMB in that man’s future. He can exercise the anointing of the Holy Spirit while telling lies with statistics. Factually inaccurate? No. Useful? Hardly. Imagine how much time the pastor of 25,000-member Prestonwood Baptist Church must have to spend on each sermon by this standard!

Canada made the BHT possible. Of course! We invented the telephone, the snowmobile, the green garbage bag, basketball and now this

Michael – RE: The Red Sox – I care, man! Just a half game away! How I’d love to be back in New England right now.

Scott: Thought you were about to have a Joe Pesci moment there for a second. “You think I’m funny….? You find me humorous? Am I a clown?”

JS: Thanks for the html advice. I’ll see what is happening here. Now that I have to abandon my Linux machine to write IM, I am confronted with the decision of whether I actually want to use html so I can write on the Linux machine.

BTW- I now know what is wrong with your love life. YOU’RE J.R.R TOLKIEN!!!!!! Drop those Yivrian pick up lines! Seriously, very impressive. Feel free to speak your native tongue here at the BHT.

Baptist Press has a headline down the page that is something “Holy Spirit Needed For Kingdom Growth.” Wow. That’s a major discovery! Did George Barna come up with that one?

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement regarding my sister. I hope to keep in phone contact with her over the next few months, though I won’t be able to actually see her until December, at which point she’ll probably be showing. That’ll be strange.

Michael, as a nonsmoker, among other things, you are not priveleged to correctly interpret the Bible. If you examine the text, you’ll notice that every time Jesus supposedly speaks in Aramaic, it’s written in Greek letters with a Greek text surrounding it. The only possible conclusion is that Jesus spoke Aramaic in Greek. For your blasphemy, you are hereby excommunicated, though you may be readmitted if you recant. (JN)

Michael: I’m funny. Thanks. Now I know why people giggle every time I enter the room – and it has absolutely nothing to do with my fly being open.

I’m feeling pretty parental at the moment. Not a lot of opportunities for me to experience that, since the wife and I have no kids and are actively avoiding parenthood at the moment. I just had to lay the smack down at a kid on a message board I moderate, who got way out of hand over the Creation vs. Evolution argument.

The guy’s basically a young earther a la Michael’s earlier description. He calls theistic evolution “the worst of all possible options”. When I asked him to explain how a belief that starts with “God created the heavens and the earth” could possibly be Biblically worse than atheistic evolution by random chance or chaos, he went off the deep end. He called me a heretic and went on to tell me how prideful I was and how spiritual I wasn’t.

I guess I should model my spiritual life off of him, then, huh? Then pride would be absolutely no problem whatsoever.

It’s weird. It’s one of those situations where I genuinely respect the guy. He’s got a good heart, most of the time, and is usually not so volatile. But part of my job is to disallow that kind of behavior, and so… SMACK. So, at yon board, Creation vs. Evolution has been declared a verbotten subject. The horse is not only dead, but it’s tenderized and ready to go in the oven with some potatoes and garlic. BAM!

Some reasons to feel good.

School out tomorrow for 9 days. That rocks.

Come ON Bill and you closet Red Sox fans. Who freakin’ cares!!!! This is a fun Red Sox team, and if if if if if if if they did it you would kick yourself for not caring. (Really, these guys have the best offence in baseball. They can do amazing things, and about half of them are crazy.) It’s ANYBODY BUT THE YANKEES time people! (So what if they took the Twins this year 13 games to none! Ya gotta root for the Twins, the A’s and the Sox. It’s morally required in a just universe.) You do realize that we could see a Cubs, Red Sox Series?

BLOOM COUNTY IS COMING BACK!!!!! Is that great or what?

It may be the coolest NR cover ever: HELL- The Case Against Howard Dean’s Vermont.

Men are reaching new lows, enabling moderately decent jerks like me to feel OK about myself.

Finally…there is still time to call the Cincinnati Reds front office and suggest they hire me as general manager! Seriously—I should have this job. I’m all for putting Larkin out to pasture. I’m for sending all the overpaid babies to other teams and hiring the blind, lame and hopeless who just happen to fill out my hidden scorecard of Jamesian statistics and can’t help but win more games next year than this year on less money. I am the MAN. Hire me John Allen!!

Michael: I said “What Michael said” in response to Jesse – doesn’t that count for something? Frankly, you bored me by going on and on about pacifism, and I forgot to pay attention to you again. (JN)

I’ll wait until you let loose with both barrels later today, and then I’ll say something back. And since it’s been a while, I’ll be sure to find something with which I disagree. Even if I don’t, I’ll spin my agreement in a disagreeable way.

And it’s not even Friday. ;-)

Ever just read Revelation 20 and notice what it does and DOESN’T say?

Mark Steyn says Clark is a seat-warmer for Hillary, who won’t be able to resist going after a weakened Bush. More evidence the iMonk’s Hillary/Clark prediction has credibility.

In a matter of hours we will be losing an employee. At the departure of this individual, I am going to be free to blog in a manner that will miraculously give massive amounts of mental health to all those around me. Stay tuned kids. The iMonk is dusting off some powerful old brew.

I am only marginally hacked off…..that no one noted the crap my daughter was almost duped into putting into her brains….no one told me how to fix the IM html/Regular Mozilla bug….more people didn’t say nasty things about the Missions article…. rigney didn’t admit to being the model for the Donald Sutherland character in Animal House….that Scott is so dxxxed funny.

Jesse: What Michael said. Forgiveness and acceptance are easy to talk about, but life is hard, and doesn’t get any less hard as far as I can tell. Pain and consequences aren’t wrapped up in 42 minutes plus commercials, either. We’ve all screwed up at least as badly as your sister has, and I’ve personally screwed up in exactly the same way as well as far worse things. Providentially (see, there’s a dark side), I’m not bearing the consequences in quite as exquisite a fashion as your sister will, though I sure bear less-visible burdens years after some bad choices.

Michael: Since I enjoy the New King James translation, I guess that’s like enjoying the blogger-style BHT, right? The AV1611 guy would rather spit than talk to me, are you gonna playa-hate the same way?

Someone I knew back in my working-for-a-televangelist, going-to-a-word-of-faith-church days used to drum for the church band. He would laugh about how the band “worked the rubes into a worshiping frenzy,” all the while chuckling about the gross immorality of his life before and after services. Of course, it’s easy to poke fun at people who worship differently than oneself, but it could be argued that seeking emotional release through song is no more wrong than singing hymns without passion. One can be similarly unchanged and unrenewed after either “experience.”

I happen to think it is harder to resist transformation by the Scriptural content of many hymns, but there are plenty of people who spend their entire lives surrounded by hymns and still grow up to be Bishop Spong or Pat Robertson. (JN)

Wait a second. I want to gripe about worship music :-/

In today’s selection of contemporary “I’m gonna Praise and Worship” songs, there was a generous sprinkling of references to ‘Your presence.” We seek Your presence. Your presence is a treasure. We’ve come into your presence. Show us your presence and so on.

I sat there wondering if this is the modern “I’m gonna Praise and Worship” movement chasing its own tail? Is the “presence” of God mentioned in these songs largely a code word for the experience called “feeling God’s presence” that is roughly the equal of having a really good band/group lead in some highly emotive praise choruses? In other words, are the songs saying “We are really excited about getting the feeling that God is around, and the best way to get that feeling is these songs.”?

JS: It’s an Aramaic only movement. You are hereby exiled from your own movement.

Quite actually, I’ve been through this (unplanned pregnancy, if one may use such absurd language) with quite a few people down through the years. I’d say the important things at this point are:

1. Practical acceptance. Unconditional acceptance – sure but that is mostly yada yada yada. How about dealing with the details. Whatever direction they go there are lots and lots of problems starting out parenting this way. The more mature people need to unfold their arms and help out. It’s a done deal, and if you can’t say anything profound then do the right thing.
2. Prayer. This is a very redemptive situation for a lot of people I’ve known. Yeah, there have been some horrible messes, but on the whole it has a wonderful affect on people with the right core values. They grow up and act like parents and adults, finally, and it ain’t bad at all. On the other hand, a lot of Christians find it hard to deal with the constant reminder of immorality, and they choke. That’s a shame. God’s sovereign plans of how to bring children into the world do not always need preapproval by the righteous, believe it or not.
3. The child must always know they were wanted 100%, and never doubt that or sense doubt about it. Gosh I have a lot of kids- and adults- here at OBI who have been told “You were a mistake” or “I wish you’d never been born.” That is a bad one.

And I have decided my movement is “The original Blogger BHT is the only Real BHT. All others are of the devil.” In accordance, I have sent JN to Landover Baptist for punishment.

I saunter into the bar and demand a beer on the house in light of recent events in my life. When it rains, it pours, eh?

I am also starting a Greek-only movement, which will deny fellowship to any and all who haven’t learned the Language Jesus Spoke. We will also restrict inspiration to a particular set of manuscripts, to be decided based on which have the hardest handwriting to read. Proper interpretation will be infallibly decided by a panel of Calvinist pacifist smokers.

Jim: I’ll counter your NIV movement with an Amplified Bible Only movement. Anyone want to throw in on a Scofield-Only movement.

I’ve decided to start an NIV-only movement, to counter the insideous evil that is the ESV.

Bill: Silly man, there are no pacifist Calvinists! How can light have fellowship with darkness? How can such perfect doctrine coexist with soft-headed inanity?

Oops, sorry. Dead horse. Never mind.

(JN)

PWinn: I too was “outed” by a classic book. Mine technically wasn’t a re-read for me (Highsmith’s Strangers on a Train), but there were few choices on the quiz.

Scott: It has been a looong time since I’ve actually interacted with a KJV-only lunatic. Thanks for a big laugh. Are you sure this website has been updated in the last, say, five years? No, wait! The copyright notice on the main page is for 1995! Make that eight years!

Thanks for the biggest laugh I’ve had in a while. Your essay was hilarious already, and poking around av1611.org is about to hurt me, I’m laughing so hard.

A Response to AV1611.org.

AV1611.org, one of my favorite KJV-only fundy sites, has a series of questions posted at its website. Since I’m feeling bored today (it’s United Way day at work), I’m going to respond to all of his 10 questions. He probably won’t ever read my responses, but that’s OK. He probably wouldn’t pay attention in the first place.

1. Since you’re smart enough to find “mistakes” in the KJV, why don’t you correct them all and give us a perfect Bible?

Well, well, well… right out of the box, eh? Well, I, for one, don’t find “mistakes” in the KJV. It’s a perfectly good version of the Bible, if your hobbies happen to include languages that haven’t been spoken since the 17th Century. Maybe it’s my upbringing, but I just don’t use the word “Thee” anymore, unless I take off an “e” and use it as an article. Call me nutty.

2. Do you have a perfect Bible?

Me personally? Well, I don’t know if I’d call it perfect. I’m still waiting for the Left-Handed Mountain Climbers NIV advertised on this site earlier.

3. Since you do believe “the Bible” is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice, could you please show us where Jesus, Peter, James, Paul, or John ever practiced your terminology (“the Greek text says…the Hebrew text says….the originals say…a better rendering would be….older manuscripts read….” etc.)?

Sure. Right after you show me where Jesus, Peter, James, Paul, or John practiced yours. In fact, if you can find any reference to Christ speaking 17th Century English during His 33 years on this earth, I’ll buy you a beer.

4. Since you do not profess to have a perfect Bible, why do you refer to it as “God’s word”?

Frankly, I don’t use that phrase. However, I would refer to Christian scripture in general as “God’s Word”, and everything that came after that as “man’s translation of God’s Word”. Including the KJV. In fact, I call the KJV, “man’s translation of God’s Word ordered by a raving homosexual”.

5. Remembering that the Holy Spirit is the greatest Teacher (John 16:12-15; I John 2:27), who taught you that the King James Bible was not infallible, the Holy Spirit or man?

Uh, look. We’re not getting along well here, so let me just repeat myself. Apparently, you’re having difficulty hearing me with your hands on your ears and your screaming “LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA” while demanding I purchase that KJV over there that someone slapped a cheesy gold inlay of a sword on. So here it goes: I don’t dislike the KJV. It’s a perfectly good version of the Bible for people that sailed on the Mayflower and wore funny hats and thought “bundling” would let teenage lovers sleep together without having sex.

6. Since you do believe in the degeneration of man and in the degeneration of the world system in general, why is it that you believe education has somehow “evolved” and that men are more qualified to translate God’s word today than in 1611?

Uh… I don’t believe in the degeneration of man or of the world system. See – that’s the problem – you’re sooooo negative. Here, take this. It’s a happy pill. OK, it’s Xanax. You’ll like it. It’ll help. Trust me. There. Now listen – the world is NOT getting worse and worse. Christians are not being set on fire and crucified and fed to lions for the sake of entertainment. If they are, it’s special effects. More people have heard the Gospel message today than ever before. It doesn’t mean that things are getting better… we still live in a world that’s governed by the Fall. It’s still as filled with corruption and evil as it was 500 years ago… or 2,000 years ago. Jesus didn’t come into a perfect world – He came to show us how to get to a perfect world when we die.

Now frankly, I do know that there have been interesting discoveries since 1611. We’ve found papyruseseseses that are older than the ones that the KJV was based on. They give us a clearer picture of what the scripture originally was. OK? No? Well, here. Have another happy pill. Enough of these, and you won’t care.

7. There is one true God, yet many false gods. There is one true Church, consisting of true born-again believers in Christ, yet there are many false churches. So why do you think it’s so wrong to teach that there is one true Bible, yet many false “bibles”?

I do believe there is one true Bible. It’s the one that was originally written, not the one ordered by a homosexual king.

Also, if the KJV is the one true Bible – what about the other 5 billion people on the planet that don’t speak English – much less a version of English that George Washington would have called “Old Skool, Homies”.

8. Isn’t it true that you believe God inspired His holy words in the “originals,” but has since lost them, since no one has a perfect Bible today?

That would be correct. No Bible is perfect. There’s too many differences in the languages, too many mistranslations, interpretations, etc. The miracle is that most of the Bibles agree 99 44/100% of the time, and the disagreements are usually matters of tone or grammatical.

9. Isn’t it true that when you use the term “the Greek text” you are being deceitful and lying, since there are MANY Greek TEXTS (plural), rather than just one?

Well, let me ask this… since there are at least 4 versions of the KJV prior to the Revised Standard Version, aren’t you being deceitful and lying when you refer to the King James Version, instead of the King James Versionsssss?

10. Before the first new perversion was published in 1881 (the RV), the King James Bible was published, preached, and taught throughout the world. God blessed these efforts and hundreds of millions were saved. Today, with the many new translations on the market, very few are being saved. The great revivals are over. Who has gained the most from the new versions, God or Satan?

There are probably more Christians alive today than there have been people in the past 400 years. Unless you mean Christian to be “KJV Onlyists”, in which case, you’re correct. There are exactly 372 of you, not including Jack Chick.

Church youth group causes evacuation of City Hall

Can you think of a worst place for a wedding?

Phillip: No prob. I actually don’t overeat… often… ahem… I guess I should have put the (SW) on that, huh?

However, I will confess that bad food choices when I was younger, combined with genetics and a low-energy lifestyle have left me pretty large. I’m roughly the size and shape of a Carolina Panthers linebacker. Fortuntely, Mrs. Ward doesn’t mind and is happy to help me lose some of my bulk.

I’ve already cleared this with Michael:

Hunting season in NY begins Oct. 1st. If anyone wants to pray for a safe and successful season for yours truly, there may be jerky in it for you. (you may have to drive to NY to get it. Jim did.)

I’m looking into recipes for pepperoni and summer sausage also.

Smoking per se, as it has been pointed and and generally agreed upon, is not a sin. It does appear to be however, a part of our culture that is becoming unacceptable to that culture. The costs, the image, the health effects, are all adding up to push smoking into the twilight of its popularity, at least in this country. That happens with a lot of things. But defying the law is a sin, so I don’t applaud those establishments who are doing so and don’t think we should encourage them to. But Tim’s post looked like it might be (JN)’d a little.

If drinking Coke or overeating ever become culturally unacceptable, I’m sure they will fade also. That doesn’t seem to be a near future possibility.

Michael: You see what we’re reduced to? Too many taboo topics. Let’s talk about pacifist calvinists who support abortion while performing paedobaptism.

BTW: If you see Mrs. Miriam MacKinnon, wish her a happy 40th birthday. As one of her cards so thoughtfully pointed out to her, now she doesn’t have to fear dying young.

Scott: Oh no! I suddenly can’t remember if you’ve ever said you have a problem with overeating! In any case, I’m sorry, that comment was definitely at my 220-pound self, not anyone else.

While I can certainly think of some human bodies that might cause me to have a near-religious experience, generally I think that the verse should probably only be applied the way Paul applied it. Whew! That’s one less passage gnawing at me every time I take “just one more bite…”

Phillip, on Force-Feeding Rat Poison to the Temple of the Holy Spirit: I’ll ignore your statement on overeating…

And I wonder if treating your body like a temple means letting Benny Hinn slap you around with his jacket like a cheap wh… sorry.

I have something too, asthma or bronchitis or however they are spelled. But not from smoking probably from all the pollution or the allergies I have. Speaking of allergies, I have them ALL. Everything you can imagine except for food allergies, I can eat anything. So when you wear your wool suit to church, you are invading my air space and my allergies.. boo hoo hoo, get over it, I did.. Some people really need to get over their narcissistic holier than thou attitudes..

Everyone wants to wine about something, I’d rather drink it.. damn those smokers and their ruin of the world.. all the while we drive our oil burning cars and allow the pollution of our waters. I say gas should be 5 a gallon, maybe then people would get off their fat duffs and ride a bike to the video store.

My neighbor is on an anti Caffeine kick,, I offered him a coke and he said “no way man, I will not let that poison to enter my body”, then he lit a cigarette and smoked it. I see the paradox, I wonder if he did?

It’s so easy to slam those evil devil worshipping smokers while not realizing how offensive and wrong things you do are to others, they just are not some leftist cause yet so you haven’t heard about it yet,, your day is coming though, I assure you of it. I am all for those bars that are defying the law in allowing smoking. I do not want to live in California, soon they will drive all the people out of there and I don’t want them here.

hahahahahaha.. man I wish I had a smoke now, I sure feel better..

oh,, I should also say that this was not directed at anyone in here,, I might be just a tad frustrated at work,, maybe….{:>)

I have to echo Kurt’s statement that I don’t believe that smoking is a sin (nor is drinking, but that’s a completely different topic).

My problem is smoking is this; it bothers me. It really does. I even tried it three times, but being around it bothers me. Why did I try it? I was in my first year at college and VERY stupid. I’ve improved some, though some would deliberate that.

Anyway, I found out about two years ago that I have borderline asthma. It doesn’t really bother me unless I have a cold or some sort of infection, I get really really winded, or I’m around smokers or very strong smelling stuff (sometimes, even the Bath and Bodyworks stuff I really like bothers me). Smoke if you want, just don’t do it around me, don’t do it around my house, don’t even do it outside my house. You have a right to smoke, but I have a right to breathe smoke-free air and not have to wheeze.

Okay, I’m shutting up now.

On the various types of smoking…

Tobacco:
Well, I don’t think it’s any kind of sin. If you want to put burning leaves into your mouth and suck on them, that’s your perogative. However, once your smoke gets into my lungs, that’s a sin. ;-) I’m fully behind any kind of legislation that keeps second-hand smoke away from non-users. Some of this, no doubt, stems from the fact that Amanda gets sick around smoke, and nothing ruins a nice dinner faster than smokers nearby. For the record, pipes and good cigars smell a lot better than a cheap, nasty cigarette.

Marijuana:
I think I side with Scott on this issue. I can’t think of any compelling argument to keep it illegal, so long as its tightly regulated. And the rules on second hand smoke apply, doubly. I don’t, of course, approve of breaking the law to smoke it now. And, even were it legal, I would discourage my friends and loved ones from its use. Sort of a paradox there, huh?

Dad earns his pay. One of my daughter’s professors told her to go hear Tim Wise, a “conservative” (ahem) speaker, for a class. So she asks what I know about him. I look him up. Check this out, and see what my kid was headed for. Unreal comments about moral equivalence of Bin Laden and America. College ain’t easy. Thank God my daughter trusts me. Now, maybe a note to the prof would be in order.

I smoked for a few years and then quit, not by a nicotine patch but with Copenhagen ;) (I know the feeling Ken. I love that smell.). I finally did kick dipping and occasionaly enjoy a cigar, pipe, and cigarette, but not all at the same time ;) I think I’ll pour myself a glass of fine single malt scotch and call it a night.

Here’s a couple of paragraphs from Charles Spurgeon, who once told a man that he hoped to smoke a cigar to the glory of God before he went to bed that night…

“I demur altogether and most positively to the statement that to smoke tobacco is in itself a sin. It may become so, as any other indifferent action may, but as an action it is no sin.

“Together with hundreds of thousands of my follow-Christians I have smoked, and, with them, I am under the condemnation of living in habitual sin, if certain accusers are to be believed. As I would not knowingly live even in the smallest violation of the law of God, and sin in the transgression of the law, I will not own to sin when I am not conscious of it.

“There is growing up in society a Pharisaic system which adds to the commands of God the precepts of men; to that system I will not yield for an hour. The preservation of my liberty may bring upon me the upbraidings of many good men, and the sneers of the self-righteous; but I shall endure both with serenity so long as I feel clear in my conscience before God…

“When I have found intense pain relieved, a weary brain soothed, and calm, refreshing sleep obtained by a cigar, I have felt grateful to God, and have blessed His name; this is what I meant, and by no means did I use sacred words triflingly.

Webster’s defines a smoker as:

1. One who smokes tobacco.

It’s not subtle at all. There are light smokers and heavy smokers and occasional smokers. But people that smoke are smokers.

Anyway, enjoy your cigarette next year.

uh..Bill,
A person smoking a cigarette is by definition smoking, not neccessarily a smoker, the difference is subtle, but still there.
And only to the easily irritated self righteous non smoking is a cigarette a thing to loathe. I will have one next year, and enjoy it a lot.

While poking around on the RUF (Reformed University Fellowship) Website, I found this: The RUF Hymnal project. These guys are taking hymns, putting them to contemporary tunes- mainly for guitar- and using them for worship with those darned twenty-somethings. The site is, well, amazing. MP3 samples, guitar chords, overheads, lead sheets, and a growing list of piano music. Quite a treasure trove for people who like the hymn texts.

JS’s church- Mars Hill- has the coolest web site around. I’m sampling some sermons.

Uh Tim: A person smoking a cigarette is by definition “a smoker”. To a non-smoker, a cigarette is usually a thing of loathing.

I think if we were to dig up verses against smoking I’d probably drag something out of Proverbs. Get wisdom and understanding, yada, yada, etc, et al (I never know which one to use).

Smoking can be great, unless you have an addictive personality. I do not have an addictive personality, mine is more irritating..{:>).

They make pipe tobacco in cigarette form, often they are called Jharms. Like all things, if you buy the cheap store bought brands they will stink.. go to a real tobacco shop and get some higher grade tobacco. Just like a cigar, there are better ones out there if you look somewhere besides 7-11. I compare store bought cigarettes to Pabst Blue Ribbon beer,, yeech.

I never smoke in a car or indoors unless it’s a bar and I cannot remember the last time I was at a bar, I define bar as a place that has NO food..!!

I disagree that there is no effect of tobacco, maybe once you are hooked it is maintence, but for a non smoker a cigarette has a great smooothing effect.

Scott: Despite my own progression similar to your own on the subject of smoking, I do remember the supposed Biblical basis for the injunction. It all rested on a spectacular misapplication of 1 Cor 6:19. If your body is to be free from sexual immorality, as the passage suggest, then surely it should be free from carcinogenic particulate as well, right? Would you force-feed rat poison to the Holy Spirit, Scott? Well? Would you?

Sorry, it was just a short flashback. I’m okay now. Suffice to say that it’s dumb, and those that defend the practice cause me to question their mental faculties, but if 1 Cor 6:19 is the best anybody can do from Scripture, it doesn’t rise to the level of sin as much as say, overeating does.

Um, I really am just kidding with the mental faculties bit, Jesse. I question your wisdom, not your intelligence.

Ken: Who knew that re-reading an old classic book would get me a single point on the metrosexual scale? Sigh.

Jesse: My chief arguments against inhaling burning plant products include (but are possibly not limited to):

• The stench is sublimely objectionable (with the singular exception of pipe tobacco, which pleases olfactorily).


• People with burning sticks in their mouths look like idiots (pipes exude a superior image, and are so excepted).
  
• The malodorous effects of even moderate-to-light usage of burning leaves are very near to permanent, lasting long after the pleasurable (or otherwise) effects have ended. Pipe odor, as mentioned previously, is pleasing, and so the aftereffects are pleasing as well.

Gee, after all that, it’s a shame that I’ve never smoked a pipe!

Er, and some of the above is (JN)ed, but I’ll leave it as an exercised for the inebriated reader to determine which part!

Bill: Fair question. I’ll turn it around, though: what are the arguments against tobacco/marijuana/your favorite substance?

• They alter your mind in some way. (Not very true of tobacco, but still an argument.)


• They have a negative effect on your health, particularly over long periods of time.


• They are addictive.


• Addiction can have disastrous personal consequences.


• They correlate highly with the use of harder, more dangerous drugs.

Which of these things is not also true of alcohol? And is not the Bible fully aware of these dangers, and doesn’t it warn against them? And doesn’t it still say “God gave wine”, despite all of this? If we take this into account, and remember that tobacco and what-have-you weren’t known to the Biblical writers, it’s hardly a stretch to say that this stance also applies to them.

At least, that’s what I think. Otherwise, I agree with everyone else here: let it be legal and regulated.

Phillip, I’ve heard of various schools trying to ban tacky Christian t-shirts or cutting down on on-campus evangelism. But around here, at least, good people on the left and the right would have conniptions over anyone suggesting a ban on religiously required things like veils or yarmulkes.

Smoking: I’m a walking contradiction on this one. I hate cigarettes with a passion, and there’s nothing that will turn my stomach quicker than a beautiful woman sucking on a cancer tube. However – pipes and good cigars rule. I myself enjoy a pull on a fine cigar from time to time, and the smell of burning pipe tobacco is a rare joy in my life.

The funny thing is that, in my P/C days, I was sooooo opposed to any of that kind of thing. Tobacco was a cosmic mistake on God’s part, and there was no reason to ever ever ever ever ever partake of it. I never bothered to check the Bible – I just assumed it was buried somewhere in II Hezekiah.

What a difference 10 years makes.

Smoking the OTHER weed: JS, I have made my feelings on this matter available before. I do not believe marijuana to be harmless, and I do not believe it to be something to be made freely available. However – I do believe that regulated use and distribution of pot would be a better policy than what currently exists in the US. My personal stance is that we should make it legal in the same way we make liquor legal: sell it in state-controlled stores, restrict sale and use to persons over the age of 21, enforce heavy penalties on those who break that law, and then tax the living snot out of it – using those taxes to benefit other, more useful things, like schools and policemen.

Are you a Metrosexual? Here’s a quiz that my younger brother sent me. BTW, I scored a Zero.

OK, I regret posting this already and I haven’t even written it yet. Someone expound to me the rationale for extrapolating the “God gave wine” concept to practically all other substances on earth and their use. God gave tobacco. No question. Did He give tobacco so people could incinerate it and inhale the byproducts of the incineration? God gave rocks. They are very useful for alot of things. Did He give rocks so we could find sharp ones and cut ourselves with them, for some type of blood letting gratification? What would the moderate amount of cutting look like? (maybe circumcision (JN))

Despite the possibility for this, I find it hard to believe that most people, upon lighting up, are saying to themselves “Oh Boy, another chance to enjoy one of God’s gifts. I’m so glad I started this habit when I was 14”

Now aromatherapy…never mind.

The Dixie Chicks continue their misadventures. I agree with Jonathan that they are talented, and just need to shut up. But now that they are pop culture martyrs (their BUS DRIVER QUIT!!) they must take part in the mandatory conspiracy theories. If only the sisters had just fired the fat one and got another girl. All would be well.

Dean over at Heal Your Church Website has a big piece on a big Linux scarey: What if all your documents are in Word? Read it for yourself, but he is saying what I have found. Open Office (and the commenter adds Abiword) will open almost all Word docs. (97%) And did I mention these programs are uh…...free? Sure, they aren’t Ferraris, but they qualify as solid, useable, with lots of features. And did I say they were free? I’ve put OO and Abi on all the computers in the house, and I am kicking my own arse for the $$ I spent on software for Noel. Never again.

Jack: That’s it, I’m taking yours and Michael’s and whose-ever else’s items and printing them out and saving them somewhere. Perhaps I’ll present the list to my friends who want to know why I’ve suddenly lost my ever-livin’ mind, giving up emotionalism, I mean charismania, I mean pentecostalism.

Oh, for a return to the days of the blissful ignorance I had in the A/G church. While I now believe their doctrine is wrong on so many points, I’ll always respect that they held (hold, as far as I know) the Bible as the authoritative source of, well, everything.

Bill: Something about the way you phrased your agreement made me think of aromatherapy. If smoking is sinful, so should aromatherapy be. Both are stupid. ;-)

Jesse: Where have you been while most government schools around the nation banned all sorts of displays of religion, including tacky t-shirts? Weren’t you paying attention then? They are government schools, so I suppose that the government can impose any rules they wish. Nobody’s talking about making little Moslem girls wear tank-tops to private schools!

And while smoking cigars or cigarettes is stupid but not sinful, smoking weed is both stupid and sinful, because it is illegal. As a Christian, I have no opinion on the matter, but as an American Libertarian, I say let MJ be legal anywhere tobacco is legal, and let tobacco be legal in more places than it currently is.

Jim: That lawsuit is pretty old, and was settled. The woman who was the “victim” of the April Fools’ prank got a real Toyota.

One of my OBI friends and a great fellow servant sent me this article endorsing the CRI book Starlight and Time in hopes that I will finally rid myself of the notion Genesis is pre-scientific. I read it. Now you read it.

For those of you who don’t know. Rigney was the inspiration for Donald Sutherland’s character in Animal House. The English teacher all freshman dream about.

Jack lives!! I salute you sir. (And thought as I was reading your post that all good reformed folk should be able to “Amen!” your list.) Shame on the fundies for infesting Christianity with the idea that God gives points for abstaining from creation’s gifts, used properly and in moderation.

My dream of a job evolution project continues and is in a critical phase. The boss is away but has my 8 page “Jerry McGuire” piece in his mailbox, and I have enlisted three of the administrative big dogs on my team. They have various angles on the whole project, but the important thing is they are all in favor of putting me on the road as much as possible. I am not expecting any immediate results, but I am hoping and praying this will be seen as the best course for our school and the best use of my gifts.

Looking for some Cheap PCs?

BWIII still believes in the James Box. I hope he’s right, but I’m pretty skeptical.

This article comes from a news source I distrust and a reporter who personally slandered me and almost cost me my job, but the story of the SBC pressuring NOTS still disturbs me. It appears to me that the SBC leadership may be about to do another public relations debacle. Someone defend or explain this.

Waitress says Hooters restaurant promised her a Toyota, gave her a toy Yoda.

I found this article on suicide bombers (and a lot of other topics) fascinating.