Normally when the BHT is hopping with a major debate, I am right in the middle of it, and if I’m not, I’m thinking about what I will say when I get back to the keyboard.

Not today. I’m glad I’ve not been in this discussion. Don’t get me wrong. It’s been a great discussion, and carried on very cordially. (BTW- the Dead Horse was a discussion of Calvinism and Arminianism, and can be brought back if things get nasty. But I don’t see that.)

One thing that has me on the sidelines here is that I have never met anyone as theologically razor sharp as Josh. The fact that he is 20 years old makes it completly intimidating to me. I sit here with my library behind me, my degrees on the wall, 31 years preaching….and I don’t want to get into it with this dude. It appears he knows a lot more than I do, is supremely confident, articulate, and that makes me feel …..sorta stupid, to be truthful. :-) You twenty-somethings. What can I say?

Having read a lot of Josh’s blog, I also don’t entirely know what to make of his attitude towards Calvinism. I’ve never been around Calvinists who critiqued Lutherans harshly. Maybe that is because I hang out in the wrong circles. (Founders, Piper, Ligonier) But I’ve never heard Lutherans kicked around by any Calvinist I’ve read, any Puritan I’ve read, any Reformed preacher I’ve listened to- and I’ve listened to a lot of the heavyweights. So I have to admit I don’t know entirely what is going in with this. I listen to the Reformed guys and the Lutheran guy kid each other on White Horse Inn, but it usually sounds like they have the Gospel in common, and the differences over sacraments, predestination, effectual calling, etc. have never gotten in the way of cordial fellowship in calling one another brothers in the Reformation. So I’m not sure if there is a fight here or not. Josh, maybe you have some history with Calvinists that is different than my own experience with Calvinists and Lutherans.

Now…on to another news item. Tom said…

Hmm, so then Calvinism would say that the Holocaust was God’s will? That the Twin Towers bombing and the Oklahoma City bombing and repressive, murderous regimes around the world are God’s will? Reasons enough for me not to be a Calvinist!

So God is glorified in the horrible tragedies of the world, because we sure wouldn’t want to say God is not omnipotent. It’s better to call God a murderer? With that kind of thinking, no wonder people don’t turn to God. Oh, wait a minute, it’s God’s will they don’t turn to Him, right? Universalism and process theology is looking better all the time.

Some comments. And I admit it’s none of my business.

1) It’s not particularly hard to raise emotional objections to the implications of any belief in God. If you’d like to save some ink, just type “Job.” He said it better than any of us.

2) I would just like to know if we are going to be looking at texts and what they mean, or coming to a conclusion that is emotionally and intellectually satisfying apart from texts? Because if we are looking for something that will settle well on the human mind and emotions, then by all means, lead on! Just announce in advance that no texts of scripture to the contrary will be disturbing the trip. If we DO look at texts, I promise they are going to unsettle the mind and the emotions. (Examples can easily be provided.)

3) When I was a non-Calvinist, a friend gave me A.W. Pink’s Sovereignty of God. Everything you are disliking about Calvinism, all the objections, all the evidence that God is a monster, a sadist, a sickie…it’s all there. I have never been so angry reading a book. It made me furious. Just one problem: I couldn’t escape the conclusion that no matter how you but it together, at the end of the day, God must be sovereign or He is not God. And scripture leaves me no other choice.

4) In the past on the BHT, I have shown a proneness to get upset when someone caricatured Calvinism with extreme, emotion packed examples that no one had suggested. I’m going to try and not travel that road, but I will say plainly that I don’t like it. Making the observation is fair play. But let’s take it easy on conclusions like “That’s why people don’t turn to God.”