Russell: Then wouldn’t we have a problem with the converse, if we limit depravity to soteriology, how do we explain the bad stuff Ted Turner does outside of issues directly relating to his salvation?

It’s possible I’ve been doing intellectual gymnastics for so long I don’t notice it anymore, but I guess the reality is that I don’t see total depravity out there. I see some pretty depraved people on both sides of the (salvation) fence, but I see good works from both sides as well. Hitler got the trains to run on time…built up the economy too. But we know that there isn’t a balance “up there” with our good works on one side and our bad on the other.

One time a (pagan) psychiatrist told me that; “most people do whatever they do in order to get their perceived needs met, if you figure out that part, you’ve got it licked.” None of us is good, but good is done by us “no-goods”, at least good from our perception. The trouble is that when you’re sitting at the bottom of the depravity well, how’re you to even know what’s good?

See, I just argued myself around in a circle…

Kurt: Loved that link, I can find out if Fido goes to heaven for only $8, I got my credit card out already…this almost made me become a dispy the other day, then I saw my wife.

If Truth = Cash Flow definately Rod Parsley. Otherwise Socrates. But what I really want to know is which of them is good.