Russell/Kent: I wouldn’t necessarily say that the American experiment is focused ont he idea that people are capable of self-government, but rather than anything else is bad. That is, people have shown that they must be governed, and rather than trust anyone else to do it, like a king, we’ll take turns. The first way of looking at it does in fact fail to take into account man’s depraved nature, while the way I’ve suggesting is subtly different enough to take it into account fully. We limit the power of government at every step within the Constitution, precisely because we don’t trust people in power, even for the short-term.

Kent: Don’t worry about Jim. He pooped all over the place when I asked for questions for J.I.Packer, then frothed at the mouth a short time later over Manning, so give him enough time and he’ll be using “dovetail” in a sentence as well.

Michael: On Socrates vs Parsely, don’t tell me that you’re equating good theology with salvation! I actually have no reason to believe that Rod Parsley isn’t saved, despite his nonsense. I have no reason to believe that Socrates was. So I would say that Parsely was closer.

I’ve been in the P/C churches for a long time (I’m being confirmed as an Episcopalian tonight), and I can tell you that the majority of people in those churches are Believers. Misguided, sure, even wacky. But as has been said over and over in here, we are not saved by perfect doctrine, but by the Grace of God. Frankly, I don’t know what the exact percentages are, but I’d be surprised to learn that the percentage of P/C youth who “lose their faith” in college is any higher than the percentage of mainline or even (gasp!) reformed youth.

As my mom has mentioned to me (paraphrasing), “Yeah, law vs gospel, etc. I know a lot of really bratty reformed kids.” And by “kids” she means teens, usually.