Have you ever lost something and years later found it? I had such an experience this week.

In case you’re interested (you’re probably not) in a little more info on the testing thing that Kent prayed for, I finally blogged it.

Well gang, I’m leaving in the morning to spend a few days in and around Williamsburg, VA for vacation.

Any “must see” spots y’all would recommend within day-trip distance?

Tom, You’ve been quoted.

Thank you prayers, test worked out fine. Turns out that even though I took Trig and Calc in high school, I managed to pull decent grades while failing to assimilate the information. I hate technical stuff more and more.

Ken: The funny thing about that picture, to me, is how much those young Microsofties look like today’s Linux/Open Source geeks. Check out Alan Cox, Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds for reference.

Actually, ol’ Linus has filled out a bit, so he looks less nerdy now. Bill Gates hasn’t much, though. He needs to drink more beer, probably.

Check this out

Gates is the one on the bottom left?

Danny, disengage your mind, don’t try to analyze it. (jn)

That said it’s good to watch. One of my nieces paid me the best compliment she ever could, she once said (she was around 17 at the time) that “your and Aunt Laurie’s marriage is one of the two best I’ve ever seen”. She went on to tell me about the young man that is now her husband; it turns out that his parents had the other marriage of the “two best”. About one year later this niece’s father and mother divorced, very painfully.

My niece is happily married, has one little boy so far. She watched and she waited. I believe who you marry to be the most important decision you can make, though maybe you believe it’s entirely predestined ;-)

Talk to those married friends, I did and learned alot.

I waited until I was 32, and it was worth the wait…

Kent: No one yet. Figure I ask as I spent an entire weekend with married folk. I also hung out with my best-friend last night and had a great time who is also recently married. I notice all the little things in other people’s relationships. How they respond to questions, comments, hugs, etc. Trying to deduce through science how things work. I figure that is no longer the best way and most people find their spouse through the trial, error, trial better than error, trial, semi-success and finally, for lack of a better term, settle on the love of their life.

Tom: When I was in Cuba there were few churches. The choices were slim and limited to P/C , works based, and sola fide. We didn’t get to pick a crowd that fit our mold and so we were thrown in with “Believers”. Amazing. They had all the trouble a family had yet remained loving. Designer churches abound. I met a pastor who is starting a church in a very small town. They have seven people who alternate houses and the theological pendulum swings as wide as it can go. They must get along and grow together. That’s the way it should be, maybe, so you can practice love inside and outside the church. We need more open discussion without the standard “us vs. them” mentality.

Onto beer. I went to a new brewery in town and it wasn’t great. The beer was amateur and the food “fancy”. Beer lovers don’t want fancy food. If I can’t pronounce the ingredients with my slur then forget it. It isn’t good food.

Since I’m responding to about a million posts since the last time I logged on, its all in extended. Do you prefer multiple posts to extended posts? I always feel like a hog if I post three times in a row.
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Something funny just happened. I’m reading Jesse’s engagement post and his link to “The Internet Monk” comes up in yellow on the sidebar, which is hard to read, so on first gland I read “The Inerrant Monk.” Enjoy! More »« Less

Michael: Indeed, Piper is very involved with SGM (no longer PDI, get with the program! ), so such a thing would not surprise me at all. And I hope to maintain communication and fellowship with the SGM pastor from San Diego when he moves here, even introducing him to my pastors, but I suspect that the ECUSA politics are difficult enough right now with creating too formal of a relationship with “outside” organizations. :-)

BTW, Matthew’s post reminded me that there are charismatic ECUSA churches, too, including at least one in the Dallas diocese, at which my pastor (Gavin, not Bill) has preached recently. Indeed, these are a different flavor of charismatics even than the A/G folks with whom I grew up. There are lots of charismatic Anglican churches in Africa, too, but I don’t know too much about them other than that.

Still, if you read that 23-page PDF, you will find things like this:

Of course, the historic — and present — position of the Sovereign Grace team has been that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is an experience distinct from conversion (though not necessarily temporally separate from conversion) in which the Spirit comes upon a believer to empower him for Christian life and service.

They have “decided to welcome those who hold a ‘third wave’ view of the Spirit’s work—as long as certain fundamental values about the work of the Spirit are held in common,” but have not actually embraced such a view. In essence, they have decided that the debate over that particular point is of secondary importance, and have re-worded their statement of faith to be inoffensive on the point. All in all, I find the PDF to be an excellent statement (and thanks, it was posted since I last visited that page!).

On another topic you mentioned, I have found that we tend to be most upset about those things which appeal to us the most. I get frustrated with my pride daily, precisely because it is that which I (obviously, despite my stated intentions) don’t want to submit to God. The most moralizing of preachers tend to be the ones most given to moral sin. And the ones most dead-set against a particular doctrine—say, Calvinism—who fixate on that doctrine to the exclusion of nearly all else, are the ones who are really, really, really attracted to that doctrine.

Now, I’ll just turn comments off for this post…

The only way to change the church is for the Holy Spirit to change people. It’s not a project, or even a political takeover. It’s a heart-to-heart process. Yes, use your gifts and opportunities. But mostly, exalt and worship the God of grace and glory in Christ.

Jeff: It’s about your kids. Don’t let your kids grow up without hearing the gospel. Don’t let them grow up with you trusting the church to give them the truth. For me, it was ALL about my kids. We made the move- as God graciously allowed- out of local church ministry and to OBI, and then to worship at a Presby Church. My kids thank me daily for both, but especially #2. No brag, but my kids are the Christians I wish I’d been at their age.

All: I’ve written three long posts responding to someone’s contention that the Reformed believe in justification by predestination. He’s hitting Calvinists harder than ever these days, and he’s saying things I’ve heard Calvinists deny explicitly 200 times. But I’ve erased them all and I’m not getting into this. No point. Pray for me :-) I’m trying to stay out of the bear-baiting ring.

I had a prof in seminary who was (is?) charismatic and has been very involved in the Aldersgate Renewal group which is a charismatic renewal group within the UMC. I never cared much for the P/C stuff I’d hear from him on occasion, but I truly respected his position concerning charismatics within the UMC. He always said that you can’t take a classical pentecostal theology and bring it into the church because it will cause a split. Instead, learn the theology of the church and figure out how to express your charismata faithfully within the theological matrix of the the church. That way you can avoid dividing people and still “build up the church” with your “gifts”. It may be a crock, but at least it didn’t smack of hostile takeover.

Take – Does anyone else think that the Dems are making themselves look terrible at this convention? I’m almost embarassed for them.

Tom writes:

Do you really think maybe, in a sense, we are spoiled? Is it such a good thing that we can find a church fairly easily that agrees with US at least 75% of the time? Is it such a good thing that we can cut and run when things go sour, instead of being forced to hang in there, as unhealthy as we think sometimes things can get?

I have been thinking a lot about this as well as evidenced by my unhappiness with the SBC. My question is how long do you stay, in a denomination or local church, in an effort to make change and when do you just give up and move on?

JS: Congratulations. This has certainly been the most unusual short-term missions experience I’ve ever heard of :-)

Mark Joseph’s book on Christians in Rock was a recent read for me, and this interview has a lot of good points from that book. Most interesting statement: Christian music, as a genre, is probably actually in decline, if you use real numbers. Wait! I thought we were having a God-sent, annointed revival of all these Christian worship bands?

(I have to say that listening to some of my young friends go on and on about their dreamed-of careers as Christian musicians is painful. No one is more saturated with mystical God-talk nonsense than the kid who wants to be a Christian music celebrity. No one contemplates reality and God’s purposes less. “It felt so cool. God was really there” is the whole story. Makes me grateful for people with an artistic vision and vocation, and maybe some of these kids are on their way, but at this point, it’s about all the wrong things. Wow. My loathing of contemporary P&W is getting toxic. Is there a rehab somewhere?)

Question of the Day: Is this racism? Or is it something else? Is it about your vision of government, and how much you “need” it. Is it about holding on to money or getting free money?

Here we go. Huge fundamentalist churches will now become victims of “persecution”

Piper’s nemesis has a new book, and I like what I hear.

PW: I don’t think that PDI teaches the baptism of the HS as separate act from salvation. Therefore, in my analysis, they are not truly P/C, but “Third Wave,” and that’s entirely different. IOW, join and enjoy. What you have with PDI is a clear evolution away from classic Pentecostal distinctives to a theology of the HS that almost all of us would affirm. It’s “charismatic” in that it’s open to the gifts, but you won’t find “baptism in the Spirit” groups gathering to teach you how to speak in tongues. (This is what happens when you start listening to good teaching :)

Here’s the PDI statement of faith. Note the articles on the Holy Spirit, Sanctification, and the 23 page pdf explaining their very flexible position :)

BTW- I predict that Piper and these people will one day do something together that will be denominationally significant.

Michael: I agree 100%. I didn’t suspect you of saying “all” P/C churches were bad, btw. As one example, I’ll mention (again) Sovereign Grace Ministries. Charismatic, reformed, excellent. That is the non-denomination that my bio used to say I was waiting for here in Dallas, before I became an Episcopalian. Now I find out that they are planting a church in Dallas at the end of the year, pastored by my family’s pastor from San Diego, but now I’m firmly entrenched in my “new” church, so I’m no longer planning to switch.

Still, I would recommend a Sovereign Grace church without reservations to anyone looking for solid teaching and a passion for Christ.

Other than that, I have no idea. I wouldn’t recommend an independent charismatic church for precisely the reasons you list.

Gee, there is value in denominations after all!

Phillip: I would stop short of saying P/Cs are all bad. (I hope I’m never that callous.) What I would say is that, unlike any other denomination, once one is in the door of the P/C movement, the slide is almost certainly downward. As I said, where is one going to hear the Gospel of grace, faith, Christ ALONE? Yes, there are P/C churches that preach this message, but they are islands surrounded by a rapidly rising tide.

Example: For several years, I served as associate pastor at one of the larger First Baptist Churches in our state. Now in Ky, the “FBCs” are uniformly missions minded and denominationally supportive. Very few independent style fundys in the pulpits of the FBCs. When I was there, I was a liberal Democrat and so was the rest of the staff. These are the churches that take pride in giving 25% of their income to the denominational program.

Well, this past week I hear the name of the new pastor at this FBC. It’s a major player in the Founder’s movement. I just read his first pastor’s column. A page and a half of Puritan quotes. It’s amazing. But that’s what’s happening in a healthy slice of SBC churches. The Gospel is being recovered, as the Founder’s movement and the seminaries are recovering the Gospel and influencing pastors.

But in the P/C world, the opposite is happening. The very opposite. Just like Warren and company are taking over evangelicalism, the most bizarre elements of the P/C movement are growing in influence. Other than Hayford and Robinson, I cannot think of a high-level public voice of sanity in the P/C world.

That’s why I say don’t send your friends there. The chances of them being exposed to spiritual cyanide is almost 100%. For those who have found a good church, my commendation. But be warned: you are one pastor away from Joel Osteen.

Hey, everyone. Stopping by for a bit here. The big smile of my face is because I just got engaged to Larisa. So I’ll soon be joining the ranks of the married, for better or worse.

How did I know that she was the right one? Well, we prayed for a sign from God and asked the visiting prophet for a sign from God, in classic P/C style, of course. (JN)

Seriously, I find it quite interesting that you’re at the P/C theology debate again, because I am continually and personally facing this question in my time here at the Bible school. If I have time I’ll write more on my thoughts on the subject, but as usual I’m crunched for time here at the internet cafe.

Tom: Fantastic question, and yes, we’re spoiled. But remember also that the believers gathered daily back then, so the awful behavior on the Lord’s Day didn’t have to screw up the rest of the week. Although this doesn’t do much for unity…

When I was young, my family lived on a Navy base in the Philippine Islands. It was a small base that had one chaplain, who happened to be Roman Catholic. He also happened to be a lecherous drunk, but that’s another story. The point is that the chapel services sucked hard. A probably-unsaved Roman Catholic wandered through a poor liturgy badly once a week. And every week my family went—so that we could meet other Christians. And every time somebody new popped up, my parents talked to them and invited them to join a Bible study.

So the church “leadership” was dreadful, but it was the only church around, much like the hypothetical you describe, but that didn’t stop a fellowship of faithful believers from gathering.

P.S. I drive past so many churches to get to “my” church that I can’t even count them all. They include: “Founders” Baptist, PCA, PCUSA, ELCA, LCMS, former Church of Christ (now independent), Bible Church, Assemblies of God, Prestonwood Baptist (aka Fort God), and more. Those are just the ones that are either within three blocks of my house or visible as I drive by.

On P/C Churches: I agree that the abuses of Scripture within P/C churches today makes many of them, or even most of them quite dangerous. But I shy away from actually using “charismatic” as a denigrating term. Despite the horrific experiences I had, I do know that there are charismatic churches that aren’t wacky. That is, the defining negative point is the bad doctrine, and the fact that there is 90% unity between that bad doctrine and manifestation of charismatic behavior doesn’t mean we should pitch out the other 10%. Okay, maybe I’m being generous, but the last time I went to an Assemblies church, it hadn’t succumbed to the mania.

Plus, I think that identifying pentecostal churches as bad is a mistake because it mis-identifies the reason we’re shunning them. The reason they’re bad isn’t the glossalia per se, but the horrific heresy. Heck, that very same heresy creeps into non-P/C churches to a lesser extent, so I’d hate to see us go off on a rabbit trail rather than dealing with it head-on.

Danny: When, roughly seven years after our wedding day, my wife agreed to “work things out” and keep our marriage going, that’s when I knew she was/is the one for me.

Seriously, I tend to be of the non-romantic (shh, don’t tell my wife) school of thought that when two people are willing to commit to each other for the rest of their lives (and no, people never really know what means until after they’re married), then they’re each “the one” for each other.

I mean, at the time, I might have given you a bubbly answer about how much it hurt (physically) not to be around her, and how she was everything I’m not, and what an angel she was, and all of that is true, but none of that lasts forever.

1. We were strongly attracted to each other.
2. There was a continuing, delightful friendship beyond the attraction.
3. We could listen to the other person.
4. Our parents approved. (Very important)
5. Our life goals were compatible.
6. Our faith journeys were compatible.
7. We were willing to stop dating other people and be exclusive.
8. We cared enough to make up and forgive when we fought.
9. We found our joy in the other person’s happiness. (VERY IMPORTANT)
10. We felt God’s leadership and approval. (But if you seek this above the other things on my list or other good list, you are making a mistake. Evangelicals whose primary reason for getting married is a mystical word from God – that they think will make it a guranteed deal- are getting divorced and having affairs every day.)
11. We liked the same things enough to spend good times together.
12. Our friends approved.
13. Actually, to be frank, it’s a miracle we- or anyone- stays married. None of us know what we are doing, and men are particularly stupid with this choice.

Danny: I knew. I just… knew. She was my puzzle piece… the one who fit me perfectly. She’s the greatest thing that’s ever happened to me, and the greatest woman in the world.

That’s right, ladies… better than all of you. The rest of you suck compared to my wife.

Reco’nize…

So, Danny, can we assume that your post to implies that you took someone special to the movie? This is an incredibly important question.

Laurie and I prayed together as well as separately; there are some P/C overtones to our story, as at the time we were, well P/C. But the truth is that, regardless of the hype (hype we were both struggling with), our marriage has withstood the test of time. Our Father made it clear to both of us, he communicated with us as Alex posted a while back, that we should marry. We were good friends, we had known each other for nearly two years in the context of a great Bible study, we received confirmation from friends that knew both of us, our families were supportive. We had some opposition, but we understood why that opposition felt the way he did, he was also interested in my (now) wife.

Being able to talk and share, being comfortable praying together, being equally committed as believers…trusting that regardless of what happens Jesus will be present in our lives, and that regardless of what happens we are committed to our marriage. Our anniversary is now the biggest day of the year, bigger than our birthday’s. Frankly I’d take the strong love of a friend over all of the romantic stuff any day, I knew that Laurie and I could be best friends, that we’d love doing the same stuff together, that she’d be someone I could paddle a canoe with for the rest of my life (I always lapse into “canoe metaphor”).

I just got back from the late showing of Bourne Supremacy. If you loved the first one or even spy flicks….go see it. I enjoyed every moment and was even surprised they strayed from the typical Hollywood formula.

If I may ask, the married folk, as personal curiosity, how did you know your spouse was “the one” (if such thing exists) when you met him/her?

Well what do you know…Mickey D’s is outsourcing…

Time Out

I do not want to raise cessationism as a topic. I don’t care what any of you think about it, except to say that I find it ironic that some of the same people who claim that sign gifts have ceased also claim that the H. S. magically preserves the Bible for them. [cough]

What I was asking, or trying to ask is this: Is there any evidence that the people who wrote the original WCF held to cessationist views? I’m asking because someone told me that it was inconsistent with the position of the WCF to accept speaking in tongues as a valid charisma. I want to know it that’s correct; I can’t find anything in the confession itself, but then again I’m brain-addled.

Michael, regarding the P/C post/experience: I am of the opinion that at sometime in the not-to-distant future orthodox Christianity (whatever that may be) will place much of the P/C genre into the same box that today contains Watchtowerism and Mormonism.

The authority and deference given to some of the “teachers” and “leaders” of the P/C movement is disturbing to say the least. There is an incredible pressure among the rank-and-file members of P/C churches to say and do the “right thing”, P/C might as well read “Politically Correct”. I see this tendency creeping over to non P/C evangelical churches too; I think it was Jack who some time ago posted some thoughts regarding the tendency of people to want to be led. I believe that the balance between “leadership” and “domination” is becoming more and more “fuzzy”.

How to fix? I’m not sure, I think it’s over my pay grade. I’m afraid that rigid and dogmatic leadership will be just as injurious as “Spirit Led” leadership; in reality they are one and the same. I’m trying to learn about leadership, it’s an area of weakness for me in my marriage, it’s tough going as I wander back and forth between tyrant and milquetoast.

I ran across this regarding then Lt. (jg) Kerry.

Tom, I’ve often thought that I should simply map out the most local church to my house (in miles) and simply go there and stick with it no-matter what. I don’t know how that would go, especially since nobody else is doing the same thing. When I was a Lutheran Kid in Anaheim CA there was actually no small amount of pressure for families to go to the most local LCMS church; we didn’t because my grandparents had already starting going to a church closer to their home and we joined them. But I remember being asked about it, and being told by other kids that we “were really supposed to go to Prince of Peace and not Zion Lutheran”.

Frankly I think your point is the reason that our churches tend not to reflect the true Body of Christ. People tend segregate themselves based upon many criteria; age, weight, social status, race…a Catholic friend often tells me that his church more accurately reflects the Body of Christ than any Protestant church. He says Protestant churches are “Menu Driven”.

Russell, somewhere around 300,000 deer were harvested in Minnesota last year, a record number. Some of them do walk up and say “kill me” but it usually occurs when you’re driving your car at about 60 miles per hour. If you kill a deer with your bumper (or door, or windshield) you can give the State Troopers a call and they’ll hustle right over and give you a tag before you can say “gut pile”.

This time of year, unless you’re looking down a road or across a farmer’s field, you can’t see any more than about 25-30 yards through the woods. We only have leaves on the trees for five months, so the rest of the year it’s a bit better, maybe 50-60 yards. Mostly people have stands, some of them are semi-permanent with electricity, coffee makers, heaters and microwaves (if you think that’s a cushy way to hunt you ought to see how they ice fish).

Also you can get up to about six deer per year, depending on where you live and how much land you have (or have access to). Whitetail tastes good, but I don’t think it’s as good as Elk, but then again you don’t have to drag it up a mountain in quarters like in Colorado. A neighbor kid said that all the kids on his school bus got to see a moose cow last year, but moose here are pretty rare. Just north of here it gets pretty swampy, and I hear the moose are more plentiful there.

RE: the testing, consider yourself prayed for.

Here’s something I’ve been thinking about lately—and it’s speculation, to be sure, because we’re in a much different situation than the early church. But we in modern (or postmodern) America have this “privilege” of picking the church in which we choose to worship. But what if we didn’t? What if there was only the one church where you lived, and that was it? What if you were in Corinth, and you knew there were major problems. Paul’s letter hadn’t arrived yet. But you had your brothers in Christ misusing the gifts of God, babbling in tongues without interpretation, fighting with each other, bragging about the freedom you have to the point where someone’s shacking up with his mother-in-law and people are not the least bit scandalized—except for you and a small minority. And you just flat don’t have anywhere else to go, unless you pack up and move to Ephesus or Phillipi.

Do you really think maybe, in a sense, we are spoiled? Is it such a good thing that we can find a church fairly easily that agrees with US at least 75% of the time? Is it such a good thing that we can cut and run when things go sour, instead of being forced to hang in there, as unhealthy as we think sometimes things can get?

There’s no doubt that our American culture of being able to church-shop was totally unknown in the New Testament. But how is it supposed to be? I mean, now there’s no turning back, there won’t be “The Church in Tulsa” (thank God because it would be run by the health-and-wealth crowd). Are we privileged, or are we spoiled?

Russell, around here you absolutely cannot see 350 yards away. I don’t know a whole lot of people who have killed a deer at 100 yards—too many trees. We get up in stands and, I would guess, get shots 50 yards and closer most of the time.

Russell: Where….......Do…..............I…...............Start?

Let’s not invite people to join the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement. :-( Please. Lutheranism. Lefty Loony Episcopalians. But not the P/Cs. The differences between Baptists and Pentecostals are not minor. How much of the Reformation Gospel of Salvation by Grace by faith by Christ ALONE are you going to hear in the best hyper-Arminian atmosphere, much less the typical P/C church? I am surrounded by Pentecostals, and you’ll hear the Epic of Gilgamish before you’ll hear the Gospel of grace, Christ, faith, justification, etc. You’ll hear legalism. Bondage. Spiritual Warfarism. Health-Wealth. My head hurts just thinking about it.

Hinduism (which is the presiding worldview in Buddhism) would basically say to a Christian….”Be a Christian. In fact, be the best Christian you can. That is your path. Follow it. It’s your truth.” The Hindu wouldn’t try to convert you. He would say that your path to God is along the path your karma has created. Maybe in the next life, you get to be a Luther….uh….Hindu.

Faith is necessarily evangelistic, especially if you really believe it. There is at least an assumption of evangelism, just by expressing your faith in the presence of others, that you hope or expect them to conform to your belief system.

Does my resting imply that you, too, should, must, ought to rest on Christ, in order to be “right?” I don’t think so. Now, if I believe you are lost and going to burn forever if you don’t believe, then that is another kind of belief that does imply “evangelism.” But if I believe Denise makes a great chocolate pie, that doesn’t imply that everyone’s wife should make that same pie, or that Denise alone should make pies. On the other hand, if I believe only Denise’s pie can cure your back pain, then I may have an “evangelistic” motive if we are talking about that pie.

Christians are given a “Gospel.” An announcement. That announcement is one we have believed, and if we communicate it rightly, we present/represent God as offering the same Gospel to others. But I don’t see that any “arrogance” or “conversion anxiety” is necessary. You seem to be equating my own conviction of truth with a conviction that others must believe the same thing, and I don’t see that those are identical propositions. They may overlap at points, but not necessarily.

And this is very interesting: ““I”m right, you’re wrong, even though there is no way to prove it.” I’m sure you’re all better men and women than I, but when I look at someone who is wrong about something, I inherintly am looking down on them.

On the arrogance of being right: I would suggest that when someone is wrong, we are looking at someone who is exactly like ourselves, and the Gospel teaches us that humility. Christianity isn’t an announcement that I am right. It’s an announcement that I am created, loved and saved. There’s no place for me to stand “over” an unbeliever. Is Paul arrogant to say “I wish I were condemned for their sake” or “I am the chief of sinners?” Absolutely nothing in the Gospel depends on me being “right.”

I think that when we are dealing with matters where knowledge IS salvation, like “What is the right answer to terrorism?”, then my “rightness” may come off as arrogance, to some degree. But I don’t see that as part of the Gospel.

The previous post is NOT postmodern :-)

Beware the rants. :P Michael, I haven’t really argued the cessationist view nor against it. I am glad that the wiser of us can come to the conclusion instead of getting sidetracked on other tangents. The question is “Has God stopped working?”. No. If there are no tongues or healing God is still at work in our lives.

God’s up there. We are down here. All the yelling and arm waving isn’t going to bring Him closer. We should seek the Mediator. /Lutheran

Russell: I’ll be a hardcore inerrantist for the conversation :)

Kent,

Do your deer just come up to you and say “shoot me”? My first hit (not a kill) was at about 350 yards. Poor thing bled to death in the woods because the guy I was hunting with who was supposed to know what we were doing (I hadn’t been out much) said to start chasing him. 4 point buck. That’s four one one side, and four on the other, just in case you were going to try to sneak some of that [cough]wrong[/cough] eastern nomenclature in the mix. (Phillip, this is incontrovertible proof that eastern and western paradigms are different.)

While we’re at it, if any of you really like to pray, I’m taking some test at the College this evening because its been more than 2 years since I scored 1390 on my SAT, and this will apparently determine which classes I have to suffer. Please God, don’t let me suck at this. Which brings up the important question: Can prayers contain the word “suck”?

Jeff,

I think you could fit into any number of light pentecostal / charismatic / community churches. Baptists don’t have a corner on the market of revivalism, church politics, or missions. Around here people float from one mega to another, not knowing or caring, or ever finding out that one is pentecostal AoG, and the other is SBC. There isn’t enough difference in the actual practices to tell, just as long as the preacher can deliver a line.

As I was googling the spelling of incontrovertible, I found this gem: The Incontrovertible Existence of God Michael, can you see what I might be talking about in regard to arrogance of certainty here?

On the fine points (no pun intended) of shotgunning deer…we’re a mixed state (rifles & shotguns) and some real he-men use shotguns because they’re in the part of the state that requires shotguns, no shame there (thoughI’m an archery kind-of-guy myself). I’ve never seen someone use a double barrel for deer hunting however, the sights aren’t much on doubles, nor does anyone crawl through the woods. I don’t know if you’ve been in the north woods before Russell, but around here your bullet/slug/buckshot barely makes it out of the barrel before it hits the deer; I know that out west the distances are much longer.

Probably Mr. Kerry mixed up shotgunning whitetails with shotgunning Viet Cong, we know he had difficulty discerning the difference between a Suburban and a Camry.