If ya want G-mail, I got 6 more invites. If you are interested send me an email at aksarben@gmail.com. First come, first served.

Kent:

I should send some Freebirds to you and Jack!

Sheeze Amanda, pray for Jack? Pray for me, all we’ve got up here is Taco John’s. Around here they think Mexican food is a Taco Pizza.

Jack, one good breeze from the East and I’ll tip over into Libertarianism. The struggle I have is the opportunity it gives Mr. Kerry…

Jack:

The only thing you have is Chipotle???

Man…I’m so sorry.

I will pray for you.

Jim: So why would you vote for W. if you plan to take over, huh? Is it because you think he’ll be easier to control than that empty suit, Kerry?

Do I hafta suck up to you? Hafta hafta? If I merely acknowledge your intellectual and moral superiority, will that be enough to get me a position as Local Potentate of Tahiti?

This is not your father’s voting machine.

I don’t watch Oprah, so Mohler’s description of a recent show on helping “transgendered” children is disturbing.

From a conversation with Jack, slightly edited:

Jim: Imagine two guys want to date your sister.
Jack: Okaaaayyyy….....
Jim: One of them is a lapsed methodist recovering alcoholic who tends to act before he thinks.
Jim: The other is John Kerry.
Jim: Now, you might not really like the first guy…
Jim: but nobody wants a spinster aunt for their kids, and methodists aren’t bad per se, and besides, he’s friends with Michael W. Smith.
Jim: So, based on this twisted, perverse thinking, I will vote for bush.
Jack: Wow. I didn’t realise you did political analysis, too.
Jack: You are a Renaissance Man.
Jack: In a PoMo World. Geez, that has gotta suck.
Jim: I am a true generalist.
Jim: I simply lack an army of privatists to follow my orders.

Anyone wishing to join my victorious crusade to dominate the world can reach me via various instant message services. There will be a patronage system once I take over, so those of you desiring high office under my regime should plan accordingly.

I was going to post this on the imonk forum, but you know what they say about getting into arguments with an idiot. And even if you don’t know, those of you who have tried to argue with me have an experience with it that you can point to in the absence of propositions. For those of you interested, I offer an idiot’s reply to the young earther:

“Genesis is a historical narrative” is nonsensical. One might as well assert that:

• The Psalms constitute a complete liturgy
• Revelation is prophecy
• The book of Acts is normative for believers
• John’s Gospel is a time-sequence narrative account, so Jesus must have cleansed the temple twice.
• While we’re at it, the Bible may as well be a complete compendium of all truth.
• Jesus was on speed, or at least very fast, because Mark always has him moving from one seen to the next “immediately.”

I can’t even begin to describe what’s wrong with the statement that literal understandings of Revelation are limited to extreme branches of pentecostalism. If someone said that to me in person, I’d kick them in the Left Behind.

The list of things that scientists can’t explain is endless. And there are always a few on the fringe who are willing to espouse some weird theory for the sake of attention. Since there’s no real explanation for how gravity works, I imagine that someplace there are a few scientists who are willing to say that the earth sits on the back of a large turtle swimming through the heavens.

Science is based on the truth that within the natural world we observe evidence of processes. The whole modern YE approach is to look for weak spots in current theories about the nature of some of those processes and then stand back and say “nnnaahh nnnnahhh” while sticking one’s tongue out at those who are developing the theories. When pressed for alternative theories, the YE answer is essentially the same explanation that managers have for how computer’s work: “it’s [insert expletive here] magic!” They can’t stomach abandoning their medievalist/magical worldview, so they stick to literalist incantational hermeneutics, and they brand anyone who disagrees with them a heretic. I must be a witch, because wood floats in water. These people live in a very small world.

Josh: I really appreciate it. You’re right on the money. Excellent points and well written. This topic is headbangingly frustrating. If I hear that Aussie say, “Were you there?” one more time, I’m going to hurt myself.

Let’s translate that tin foil.

George W. Bush, who stole the election, bombed the Pentagon using some kind of military plane or missle, then made up the story of the airliner, all for the purpose of starting a war so he could get oil from Afghanistan and Iraq. The government is being run by a secret cabal of oil barons and we must _________________.

a. rise up and have a revolution.
b. vote for John Kerry.
c. Join MoveOn.org.
d. become an anarchist.
e. become a Democratic strategist, who doesn’t believe this nonsense, but who floats it anyway as a way to keep the heat on.

I have a high tin foil tolerance, but when I think of what this sort of thing says about the families of those victims (that they are all liars, etc.) it makes me very angry.

Jack: Man, that flash presentation is some funny, funny shizzle. Conveniently omitting photos I’ve seen that clearly show wreckage, they rely on eyewitness testimony, mostly probably collected the day of the crash, and then still manage to answer their own question within the presentation itself (”...and 6000+ lbs of jet fuel…”). But hey, people want to believe!

The last time I was in Phoenix, I noticed that (in the area in which I was staying, at least) a good 95% of the yards were filled with gravel or sand. Quite attractive in its own way, and certainly it would make it pretty easy to stretch out a few gallons over 100 years. {:)}

BTW, Chipotle is owned by McDonald’s these days, and is inferior to Qdoba, which is owned by Jack in the Box. I ate at Chipotle roughly five days a week for three weeks after one opened near my office, but I’ve only been back once since Qdoba opened. It’s just better. Pray that they open one near you!

Phillip: Actually, Phoenix has more water available than almost any ciity in Texas. We have almost 100-years-supply underground even as we speak. Weird, huh? We average 7 inches of rain a year, we’re working on our 8th consecutive year of drought in the high country, we’re growing by 30,000 people a month – and we’ve got an unbelievable amount of water stored underground.

Or at least, that’s what they tell us.

Amanda: Far be it from me to imply that a chain such as Chipotle could even dare approach the heights of culinary delights that a genuine, made-in-Texas Tex-Max joint could. But you gotta realize, Chipotle is the only choice I have here in the desert Southwest. We get ZERO Tex-Mex in Arizona. None, Nada. Zilch. So, (think I’ll quote another old song), since I can’t be with the Tex-Mex I love, I love the pseudo-Tex-Mex I’m with.

I’ve probably told this story before, but there’s enough new guys here that I can pretend I haven’t. One day after I’d been in London for several months I got dreadfully homesick for decent food. I remembered a place I had eaten several years before right around the corner from the National Gallery, just off Trafalgar Square – The Texas Embassy. I short tube ride to Charing Cross station, and a five minute walk brought me into – what looked, smelled and sounded like – a genuine Texas Honky-Tonk right there in central London. The food was average and overpriced, but it was close enough for this homesick Texas boy. With George Strait on the jukebox, frozen margaritas at the bar and a basket of chips and salsa on the table, it was just what I needed to pull me through my remaining months in the culinary backwater of the world.

Here’s a candidate for the Tin-Foil Hat Entry of the Day. I heard about this at the time and it still freaks me out.

Here’s one of the reasons why I will waste my vote on Badnarik this election.

For Alex: McLaren on Derrida. (RM)

QOTD:

Well, I don’t know if this is what was meant, but…

When we lived in College Station, there was this place called Laynes. They served chicken fingers. You could get those with cole slaw and/or fries and a big slice of Texas toast as well as their one and only sauce. The food was greasy, the place was a dirty little hole in the wall, but boy was it good! And that sauce! When I first saw it, I was dubious that I would like it, but it’s SOOOOO good! Verily, I miss Laynes.

There is one other place in Texas that I really love; it’s called Freebirds. They make mostly burritos, but they also have quesadillas and have recently added chips and salsa to the menu. Now these aren’t ordinary burritos, and the only thing in common these burritos have with Chipotle’s is the size (although Freebirds offers four sizes, the half bird, regular, monster, and super-monster.). No, Freebirds is much, much, much, MUCH better. You start off with a tortilla. You can then get rice, cheese, beans, chicken and/or beef (white or dark meat on the chicken), and various vegetables, sauce, and condiments as well. ALL of this goes into the burrito; the burrito is an entire meal, if not two. They wrap it up tightly and you’re on your way (after a quick visit to the sauce dispensers to get more sauce of course!). Bask in the goodness that is a Freebirds burrito. Accept no imitations (places like Hooyah! are ripoffs that aren’t nearly as good). Unlike Laynes, Freebirds is not limited to one location. You can find them in five cities, College Station, Austin, Houston, Dallas, anda Fort Worth; any which way you look at it, you just have to come to Texas to get it.

Phillip, I agree with you about the apostolic succession thing, likely with Jim too. We’ve been going through some of our own thoughts here in MN about his “Magic Book Theory”. We could also probably come up with a “Magic Apostle/Pope Theory” if we were brought up RCC/Orthodox/Anglican.

My curiosity is historic, I simply love learning what different traditions believe. I don’t get all that wound up in the veracity of those claims.

Kent: Personally, I think apostolic succession is less-than-impressive. After all, we have all almost certainly breathed air molecules once breathed by Jesus Christ Himself, so who gives a rip about people laying hands on people?

We all share the same exact history of apostolic succession up until the Great Schism, at which point the eastern church went one way and kept things going, while the western church went another. Similarly, the church of England trace back to a later point and then diverges.

I don’t know if the Methodists care, but they could probably trace a direct line, too.

/me puts on Jim’s hat

Me, I’m more interested in the doctrine of Jesus—even those crazy apostles got some things wrong in my book.

Michael, is there any way to bounce that YE guy over to Josh? I loved his take on the subject…besides, his kidney’s always hurt. If all else fails, sic a Lutheran on ‘em!

Creationism has become a litmus test.

I’ve been taken to the cleaners by a YE creationist at the IM forum. He’s motivated by this essay. The whole topic makes my kidneys hurt. The idea that the only path to Biblical truth is through Ken Hamm and CRI makes me want to abandon Christianity as warn all others to do the same. Anyone want to take this guy on, you have my permission.

BTW- it’s great to have Jack back.

Phillip, Anglican’s claim Apostolic Succession eh? I knew that the Orthodox and RCC did. Does anyone know of any others (besides Benny Hinn)?

Kurt, my educator mother always told me, “use a word three times and it’s yours”. But I’ll take your advice, with one proviso.

The next time they cut one of my cables at work I’m going to walk up to the ditch, look the construction foreman in the eye and say; “Well, that’s the shizzle!” just to see what he does.

Danny, carrying someone out of the building while the remainder worship is a bit callous.

I remember a story told by a person that grew up in Nazi Germany. She said that their church was very near train tracks and as the trains were passing by on the way to the concentration camps they would often hear the occupants of the trains yelling and screaming out for attention…water, food and such. This lady said that when trains came by they learned to start up a hymn and sing extra loud.

I guess that they figured it was witnessing…

I was at a church service with a guy who was either on speed or drunk or both. He didn’t do anything but be wierd and ask stupid questions, but a street smart church member asked him if he’d like to take a walk, and took him outside for a walk around the block. This allowed everyone to keep on having church, and the drunk fellow to get some one on one attention.

Kent: Yes, the pending revolution sparked the idea of a separate church, and it took a few brave bishops (from Scotland, IIRC) to actually keep the whole “apostolic succession” thing going. Obviously, we’ve warmed to each other since then, and are back in communion. Or not, in many cases, but that has nothing to do with geopolitical intrigue any more.

I usually don’t publish long pieces over at ms.us, but this one seemed to fit in better over there. It’s called “Contemporary Worship and “The Walnut Street Epiphany,” and it deals with an incident in the life of Thomas Merton that I think is good grist for thinking about healthy spiritual development. Would be interested in your comments.

Phillip, re: that mini-conversation on “Episcopal” vs. “Anglican”; is that dichotomy related to the split that must have occured during the late 18th, early 19th centuries when our nation became justifiably angliphobic for a time?

Just a quick question. We had a “drunk” in church this last Sunday who was “escorted out”. I am not sure if he made so much noise to be distracted but the thought of kicking someone out of church bothered me. How far is the preacher/congregation to go to “tolerate” an individual? What if he is distracting? Loud?

Well, Jack, did you think to claim “air” for Phoenix? No? Well, some things are just so common that one forgets about them, like air or water (well, not in Phoenix, but in a lot of places).

In fact, I had tex-mex for lunch yesterday, and I’ve gotta say, that stuff is the shizzle.

Fish tacos are awesome, but I’m pretty sure they started in SoCal and have spread a bit from there.

Real Live Preacher posted some stuff that’s the shizzle about this book and a blog based book tour, I think I’ll add it to my list…

Danny, going by that link you posted in the comment about “shizzle”, it’s definately PoMo, it means whatever you want it to. Please note that I did not direct this to Russell, since he’s already been labeled PoMo it’s not a contradiction for him to use the term. How are you going to explain this to your duck? ;}

Sad to admit, but there is no food “native” to Phoenix that is worth talking about.

But what’s with you guys from Texas, huh? You got rocks where your brains are supposed to go? Six tiny letters, man: T-E-X M-E-X. Heaven on a tortilla. Ambrosia for the tastebuds. Cilantro and pico de gallo and chorizo. Do you not realize that you can’t get decent TexMex anywhere but Texas? You guys need to get out more.

For my fellow barmates who think “Mexican Food” is the same as Tex-Mex, I can only reply, “Ah Glasshopper, you are sadry deruded.” Whe I moved to Phoenix, I loved everything about it except for one glaring deficiency – no TexMex. We have Baja California-type mexican food here. It’s different and delicious in it’s own right. Fish Tacos are pretty terrific. But, (to borrow a line from Sinead O’Connor), nothing compares, nothing compares to genuine TexMex.

Bill, I concur on the “boiled dinner” thing…my wife adds cabbage, which is something that my system won’t tolerate. Until she eats the leftovers it smells like someone farted in the kitchen every time you open the fridge.

Russell & Danny, please define “shizzle” for me, I’ve heard both of you use it. Gomer Pyle used to say “Shazaaam!”, is it anything like that?

I’m trying to think of something we have that’s unique. Can’t think of much. Our fire depts have bullhead feeds in the spring. A bullhead is a kind of small catfish. Tasty, if you like fish.

My mother used to boil up a whole bunch of veggies and ham and make us eat it. She (and everyone else) called it “boiled dinner”. I call it child abuse.

Bill: I have lived in North Carolina for 30 years, and have never heard of “livermush”. I have heard of liver pudding, but there always seems to be a healthy, aging, untouched supply of it at the grocery store. I figured it was for decoration.

Oh – and there’s nothing better than NC Country Sausage. Nothing. If I were kosher, I’d have to convert. Especially Neese’s, who, incidentally, makes the aforementioned Liver Mush (which appears to be a Western NC thing) and Liver Pudding, along with Scrapple and Souse. Personally, I prefer the Hot Sausage fried up like ground beef and used in everything from chili to pizza to soup to biscuits to sandwiches.

Bill: I concur with Michael in his statement in the comments, and would only add these…

1. Cut down on the number of “church events” so that people will have time to develop relationships with non-believers.

2. Stop ostracizing your people for their relationships with non-believers, stop being so negative toward the world.

3. Get involved in community projects…not as a “Taking Back Our Community for Christ Church”, leave that identity at home, just go as “Bill” or “Kent”.

4. Enter your artwork in local shows. Don’t run home with your tail between your legs when you see a nude hanging next to your work.

5. Contribute the wonderful singers and actors that you have in your congregation to the local community theatres. Then go out afterward and drink some wine and beer with the rest of the cast.

6. Show them that you love them by listening to them, not by developing arguments, count conversations, not conversions (giving credit to Michael Card and Brian McLaren for those two).

7. Occasionally stop and have a beer with the guys after work, then go home to your wife (if you’ve got one, if not have a second beer).

8. Remember that Jesus is drawing people to Him, not to you and especially not to your particular church.

9. Love them. Don’t even think about telling them the Gospel until you love them so much that you’ll weep if they reject God’s Grace.

A lot of the foods that pass for “local” around here are actually from, say, Louisiana. Or not specific to Texas, but rather “Southern.” And of course, we’re probably most known for great big huge steaks, cooked bloody.

Not a bad thing for which to be known, if you ask me.

Although I don’t share the heritage, Native American neighbors in the Idaho/Montana area make Fry Bread, which is excellent stuff, and Indian Tacos, which are like tacos only with Fry Bread instead of tortillas.

Evangelism

If the message of evangelism is Law to the proud, grace to the humble, then just about any method of getting that message out is fine with me. I think the church needs training in evangelism, but mostly because the message of the gospel is missing, not because methods are missing.

Learn how to present the gospel, then take a group of church folks to a park or mall and start talking to people. Learn how to not be rude or invasive.

QotD: Lutefisk, Lefse, Krumkaka (and other assorted Norwegian pastries). I’ve only been here 3-3/4 years, in my opinion all of the pastries are awesome. Lefse is like a potato based tortilla, which is great warmed up with butter, or butter and cinnamon sugar.

Lutefisk is a gelatinous glob of lye-bleached rotten fish flesh that deserves to be buried, or possibly used for carp bait, not eaten.

Then there are the standard things like brats, pork feeds, pancake breakfasts…there’s a community north of us that has a lot of Bosnians, Sudanese and some Turks. There’s a Friendship Festival there that’s fallen onto hard times…but the food is great.

I can’t think of anything really special that we have down here in the Dallas area. Maybe my wife or PWinn can think of something.

When I lived in Rochester, NY for a year, however, I was introduced to a culinary delight up there known as “Nick Tahou’s Garbage Plate”. Now, old Tahou has passed away, but his famous dish is legendary up there. I only ate it once, but I think once-a-year is about all your arteries can handle of this.

It starts with hash browns. Cover the plate with them. Atop these hash browns, scoop beans and macaroni salad. Just, y’know, spread it on there. Over this, drop two hamburger patties, with cheese. Take the drippings from the burger, mix it with onion and spices and ladle it over the whole thing. Enjoy.

It really is interesting watching them prepare this cuisine. The ingredients are thrown together with all of the charm of a cafeteria lunch lady, and your plate is shoved towards you in a fashion that says, “you’re sick for eating this, get outta here. Next!”

It also comes with other toppings other than burger, like hot dogs, steak, chili, eggs, whatever. So long as its greasy.

Man, now I’m all hungry.

You forgot Livermush. We had a young family from NC who extolled the virtues of livermush. Personally, I’d have kept it quiet.

QotDfY (Question of the Day for Yesterday): For the wife and I, “not being fed” meant exactly that. The church we were attending just wasn’t meeting our needs as far as theology, community, or ministry opportunities. We spent 3 months listening to sermons about giving to the mobilizing campaign to get the church an elevator (OK – they needed it for handicapped parishoners), a new piano (to replace the perfectly good piano they already had), new windows (didn’t need them), etc. We spent 4 years building relationships with people that amounted to us interfering in their cliques, and us being acknowledged, but never received. In the end, we abandoned them for the PCA church.

QotDfT (Question of the Day for Today): Thou darest to ask…

North Carolina has two great menu items unavailable in most other areas. The first, and most famous, is North Carolina BBQ. The trick, though, is that NC BBQ isn’t one kind. There are at least three distinct styles of BBQ. Eastern NC BBQ is made with a vinegar and mustard based marinade slapped on pork butts and shoulders and slow roasted for about 18 hours, served “pulled” usually with rolls, hush puppied (deep-fried cornbread, hopefully with bits of onions mixed in), and slaw (some with mayo, some just cabbage and hot sauce). The flavor of this BBQ is a combination of salty, tangy, and spicy.

Western NC BBQ is made of a tomato-based sauce, similarly slapped on pig meat and served. It’s sweeter and less sharp than its eastern cousin. Finally, Piedmont BBQ (the middle of the state) is a mixture of Western and Eastern. You get spicy, tangy, sweet, and salty – all in one serving.

The other bit of cuisine that most people DON’T know about seems to be a thing only local to my area. While Wendy’s in NC serves a “Carolina Classic” burger sorta based on this, the true burger comes straight from the backwoods greasy spoons of NC. Take standard hamburger cooked on grill. Now, dollop on a spoonful each of slaw, onion, and mustard. Top with as much hot-dog chili (chili no beans) it or you can handle. If you’re from my area, top with a generous portion of Zack’s hot sauce and enjoy.

Jack::: Whoa there, partner! As delighted as I was to see the note about a fellow Anglican-at-heart (thanks!), you’ve crossed the line on the Yorkshire Pudding. Wow, maybe I’m more of an Anglophile than I ever realized.

Bill hits the nail on the head—it holds gravy. Plus, my wife’s recipe manages to—I’m sure, based on a couple of visits to England—taste a lot better than a “pure” recipe.

Heck, I’m with you on English food in general though. Steak And Kidney Pie—talk about bland!

OK. So most of us are pretty critical of a lot of modern evangelistic practices. Here’s my question. One that I want to discuss in my men’s bible study tonight.

What should the corporate face of evangelism of your church be to your community?

Or do you think evangelism is a strictly individual practice?

We do Vacation Bible School. I think it’s a good thing. We have an outreach to a senior citizen home which is going well. What else is there to do as a body? For all the revivals going on, my opinion is that they just don’t work as evangelism (if they work as anything). Folks are always complaining that we aren’t reaching out to the community. Well, how do we do that?

What unique, local cuisine can only be found in your part of the world? And what’s your opinion of it?

Matthew: There are some excellent online resources that will help you weigh up the issues for yourself. Check out the Paul Page for a mammoth collection of online essays, articles, reviews etc. discussing Paul and the NP, from both sides of the argument.

There are also not a few Reformed evangelicals who have taken up NT Wright’s cause and defended the NP view of justification as consistent with Reformed theology. For starters, try here. If you browse through the index, you’ll find several essays related to Wright and the NP.

Since Danny mentioned it, what is the big problem with the NPP? If What Saint Paul Really Said is supposed to outline the NPP then I am certain that I have no idea what the controversey is all about. I thought it was refreshing and now when I hear people say, “The gospel is about a personal relationship, yada, yada, yada” I think, nope, it’s about Jesus. Tell me what is so wrong about his view of justification.

What do people really mean when they say “We’re just not being fed?”

Ahhhhh an evanjellyfish term I once used! Gasp! If you’re the one uttering this – it means “I am not being challenged or told what I want to hear”.

If you are listening to it – it means that the church has failed this individual in a way they cannot express outside of personal frustration.

Side note: I went to the local xian book store. It started typically with me mumbling a louder than normal “Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh Bite me!” when I ran into some weird Joyce Meyer book which resulted in a guy overhearing me (who happened to be looking at the Catholic section). He said “I agree or how about an A-men”. I began to look at a few, very few, books in the “theology” section which resulted in an interesting discussion about Piper (the current author I was looking for) and Justification. He showed me one book he was buying “Tom Wright” and said “oh…...NPP!” “Yup…....” More conversation about Justification and inadvertently learn he is a loathsome Calvinistish type. More conversation about Justification and authors….”I like you more already….” commentary about the seminary he is attending with the parting words “Keep the faith…...” My response, classic I assume, “Do I have a choice?” His laughter fades behind the books.

Ebert: The two blokes reviewed the DVD of the Passion of the Christ (no extras in it, just the film) and his partner; paraphrased “A movie with little re-watch capability – I’ll watch it some Easter or Christmas as I reconsider my faith”. Interesting.

Matthew,

Have you considered reading E.M. Bounds on prayer? All of his work can be found in an eSword module for free, or pretty cheap in a CBD Book.

I’m not being fed…

As usual, this question is best answered with a multi-pronged approach.

1. Pentecostal: Not enough “spiritual gifts” being used on Sunday morning. Especially tounges.

2. Magic Book-ism: Not enough Bible Answers for every potential problem. Gotta preach the WORD man!

3. Charismatic: Not exciting enough of a preacher, or not exciting enough music. Probably both.

4. Baptist: Not political enough. Or maybe too liberal.

5. Word of Faith: Tax returns reveal that I’m not making as much money as last year.

6. Lutheran: Not quite enough distinction between “Law and Gospel” (tm).

7. Danny Fast-ism: Not enough “hot chicks” at this church. Or, “dated them all already.” Or “not-my-type.”

9. iMonkism: Capon not read from pulpit weekly. Or at least Manning. Something about “Christless preaching.” whatever that means.

10. Postmodern Christian (PX): Candles not bright enough, music not subdued enough, or preacher not vague enough.

11. Community Church: I have personality conflicts with more than 25% of the congregation, so I’m changing churches thinking that will solve my problems.

By the way, everyone, having only just arrived, I’m actually going to be disappearing for a few days. Ironically, in view of the current English cooking downgrade controversy, I’ll be escaping for a couple or so nights to Yorkshire. What can I say? I need some time alone with my puddings.

Jack… You are to Englishness what heretics like me are to evangelicalism. You have obviously not tried my Mom’s Yorkshire puddings, because if you had, you would not be talking such vile blasphemies. Mom’s puddings are so delicious, flavourful (with a “u” no less—what kind of Englishman are you, anyway?), delightful, robust, full-bodied and yummy that I have been known to eat the leftovers on their own, straight from the fridge.

(I’m gonna have a breakdown if this guy starts with the Germolene comments…!)

Bill: I will grant your point that the pastry in question “holds the gravy”. And if this gastronomical abortion euphemistically known as “Yorkshire Pudding” were indigenous to some place that actally had a clue about why God put taste buds on our tongue, (like New Orleans for instance), then the gravy that graced those putrid little bowls of tasteless, pasty almost-but-not-quite-bread would no doubt transport one to the very zenith of gastronomical ecstasy.

But alas, the English suck at making gravy as badly as they suck at making every other sort of food.

I mean – seriously folks – would you eat food from a country that specialises in such delicacies as “Bubbles & Squeak”? Or “Bangers & Mash”? How about “Spotted Dick”?

Yeah, you read that right. It’s not a typo – “SPOTTED DICK”. [shudder]

The prosecution rests. For the moment.

Beer is another story altogether. Thank God the English can brew beer.

Jack: You’re missing the point. IT HOLDS GRAVY, MAN. That alone elevates it among foods.

Not to slam on the new guy, but since I was the FIRST BHT-fellow from England I am going to exercise my perogative and be a wee bit testy.

The words “tasty” and “Yorkshire Pudding” do not belong next to one another. Other adjectives not suitable for Yorkshire Pudding in any incarnation: – delicious – flavorful – delightful – robust and full-bodied – yummy

Words that DO belong next to “Yorkshire Pudding” – bland – boring – tasteless – contemptible – gummable

For those of you who have yet to be initiated into the [cough cough] joys of English cooking, let me point at one simple, thought little-known, historical fact:

Remember all those great English explorers of the 16th & 17th centuries? Do you know why they left the security of home and the safety of the known world?

They were looking for some DECENT FOOD!!!

I feel better now.

The world is waiting….waiting….waiting for the BHT fellows to once and for all time answer this question:

What do people really mean when they say “We’re just not being fed?”

Note: This refers to church, not a cheap buffet. Please consider various evangelical sub types in your answer.

Example: The not-very-talented Praise and Worship diva wannabe means: “Not enough mic time!”

Good luck. Winner gets a subscription to Pray! Magazine or Predestination! Magazine, depending on your theology.

Can someone tell me why I subscribed to Pray! Magazine? I thought it might give me some insightful ideas on prayer but so far I’ve been very near disgusted. The emphasis on spiritual warfare drives me crazy and then there’s this: the term “chewing carpet” to describe “getting down on your face before the Lord.” I’ve heard “chewing carpet” before, but NEVER to describe a prayer position.

Good article Michael, on the Boat. Thanks for sharing.

From a list I monitor:

It seems to me that we need to be careful with how we describe interpretations that differ. To describe one interpretation as “normative” and another as “metaphorical” or “symbolic” poses problems. One problem is that it tends to shut down real discussion
because it alienates by accusation, subtle thought it may be. As I’ve said, non-premillennialists insist, and I think rightly, that they embrace normative interpretation.

Another problem is even more serious. Would we not all object that to use any of the following adjectives to modify “interpretation” is wrong-headed and question-begging in nature?—”Calvinist,” “Arminian,” “charismatic,” “Baptist,” “Presbyterian,” “feminist,” “gay,” “environmental,” “black,” “womynist,” “liberation,” etc., etc. [ed: Cough Lutheran cough]

I refuse to desribe my interpretation of Scripture as “Calvinist” or “Baptist” or with any other modifier other than “ordinary” or other such words. If my interpretation of the Bible is a “Calvinist interpretation” of the text, then how can I possibly critique and reject “Feminist interpretation” or “liberation interpretation” of Scripture? I would be as liable to the charge of question-begging as they are. Woudn’t I?

Charles Krauthammer puts the case for Bush in the best light I’ve read: He understands the kind of leadership demanded by war.

“The United States has two of the most centrist political parties in the democratic world. It rarely matters who wins. Things turn out all right regardless. Not this time. This time there is a war on. And when there is a war on, particularly a war with so much at stake, elections matter.

And what matters? Having a President who understands the war and has the political courage to make the necessary decisions. Everything else is trivial. ”

Dave:

Welcome!

Oh oh oh…this is gonna be fun!

Even louder, we’ll shout it!
No one can doubt what we know you can do
You’re more evil than even you
Oh, RATTIGAN! Oh, RATTIGAN!
You’re one of a kind
To RATTIGAN! To RATTIGAN!
The world’s greatest criminal mind!

runs away cackling

How/now/Brownpau linked me. I’m honored. The Contrarian Manifesto is gaining steam. Aside from three people who wrote and said they were worried about me, everyone else has joined the lynch mob. To the gallows!!

So, the imonk sitteth here, drinking a cold Stewart’s Root Beer, on ice, in a Guinness glass. And believe me friends, I need it.

Here’s what I heard before this revival. Good young preacher. Seminary guy. Left the best church in the county to start a Warren/Hybels operation, which has been moderately successful. (Younger families are pretty slow to jump ship from grandma’s church around here, and contemporary music is best personified by AC/DC and Hank Jr.)

I understood we’d get the kickin’ worship band, but I was assured by my P/C friends that it would be sensitive to worship and wouldn’t be a “Bob’s Country Bunker” atmosphere.

What a shame that I couldn’t be there right now.

Bill: I have pumped Mom for her secrets, and I can exclusively reveal her methods, so long as you don’t share this sacred information with anyone else. In her own words… More »« Less

Looks like the Afroswede is a bit behind on sharing his opinion.

Dave: Welcome to the bar! I’m glad that Alex made the “Great Mouse Detective” reference before my wife could. I’ll drink root beer, so long as it comes in glass bottles.

Evangelical – the word: What an elastic term. I think that those who could be described as evangelicals run quite the wide range of opinions. I think my definition of such hinges on the view of scripture (though there are certainly more qualifications than that!). If you can dig on the first chapter of the WCF, you’re probably an evangelical in my view.

Too much of a good thing: Ben and Jerry’s New York Super Fudge Chunk. I tried to eat half of a pint after chowing down on burgers at my parents’ place and it near done me in. What a way to go, though.

The SW RNC Advice: Good stuff Scott. Keep up teh funny. Where’s our Chicky translations? Somebody give Mr. Chick a call.

Gambling: I don’t personally ever want to gamble. I need my money far too badly for that. However, I have a friend who is a great fan of craps. He will typically budget perhaps 300 bucks to play with and, through careful play, usually extract a day’s enjoyment out of this. Since it is an “entertainment expense”, and he does not take money from say, his family’s food budget, or his church’s tithe, is this any worse than blowing the same amount of money on a vacation with pricey meals and a bunch of overpriced souvenirs? I think the “gambling is sin” argument is hard to make, but I’ll listen if you wanna take a stab at it.

I do agree that gambling harms people, and that some people have a serious problem with it. That does not, however, seem terribly different from say, cigarettes or drinking. Regulate the heck out of it, but I don’t see banning it to be good government. And if complain about seatbelt laws, you can’t argue against legalized gambling, can you?

Confronting Pastors: I’m pretty sure that’s in response to this QoTD about dealing with pastors that don’t preach Jesus. My opinion? Certainly, be mindful of the fact that your pastor is human, but “business is business”. Christ-free sermons hurt people, and those aware of such have a responsibility to act in love.

Danny: “Snuff Film”? C’mon man, we don’t need to toss words like that about a serious and respectful work, do we? Mel might have gone over the top, but I seriously doubt he meant to make some nasty little shock-film.

From Danny’s link:

The three girls also started attending church and were digging into books by authors such as C.S. Lewis, Lee Strobel, and Rick Warren.

With the company he keeps, maybe Jack Lewis isn’t really “patron saint” material after all :)

In other news…

Any other Johnny Cash fans in the bar? How did he get mixed up in this stuff?

Sitting here on a slow day I wrote a few paragraphs. Closed IE (intentionally) and started it back up again and begin to type just to close it again. What I began to type just didn’t …fit. Speaking against the Evangelical (big umbrella) is a bit counter-productive and may offend some here. Perhaps, as a fan of theology, I’d like to see more people have a studied position. An evangelical friend came over the other day. Showed me her shirt that was autographed by (insert popular band).

Passion: The snuff film is released tomorrow. A gal in my office, suggested once she’ll let “others” do missionary work as she needs “my own vacation” will be purchasing the movie. I suppose she is the one I want to view the movie as it may, because of the serious nature of faith, may be used to spark a deeper longing for faithfulness.

Yesterday I had some time before church to watch the Televangelists. I watched Hagge(sp) and the Mormon channel. Amazing. I laughed and cussed. Good times. Good times.

As a root beer lover myself (who, of course, can go to the store 100 metres away and select from 8 different brands) I sense your pain and am very glad I don’t know it!
Obviously you have no choice but to got the home brew method! We used to make it when I was kid and I loved it (actually, I never remember a single bottle making ever getting to the end of the brew time cause we’d always drink it before it’s due date).
Here’s some neato links: (most of these are American so…they may taste funny!)
Root Beer.org
Northern
Mr Rootbeer!
I just wish the A&W had a home brew kit. :-(

Godspeed brother!

(PS… thanks for fixing my post… whoever that was)

Kent: A large part of what appeals to me about the “Canterbury Trail” is the rich history of Anglicanism. Good and bad, of course—better than most popular tellings, but still fraught with, well, humanity. The label “Anglican” seems to me to better represent the community I share with Anglicans around the world (America is one of very few countries to eschew the label). Think of it this way: As an Episcopalian, I can trace the heritage of my faith back to the late 1700s. As an Anglican, I can trace that heritage back to the 7th century, in a way.

Of course, the truth is that the label means little. And frankly, the main reason I prefer “Anglican” is because it tends to suggest to people familiar with the current crisis in the ECUSA which viewpoint I hold.

Russell: You seem to be responding to something I’ve posted, but I can’t figure out what. Something about confronting pastors?

In Arkansas we have voted down various types of gambling proposals (lottery, casino) even though we do have a racetrack for horses in Hot Springs and one for dogs in West Memphis. All kinds of church groups have come together to defeat these proposals but I would agree with Tom that we come from different perspectives. Most of the SBC’ers I know think we should vote against it because it’s a sin. The UM position is that we should vote against it because a large portion of gamblers in Tunica aren’t wealthy folks who would rather gamble than go to Disneyworld, but seriously poor folks who cash their welfare checks and waste it away because they have a hope that they might “make it big” and could take care of their families once and for all. In other words, it’s making the poor even more poor.

Bill,

I learned not to say anything unkind to a pastor regarding his sermon, neither to ask for clarification if something sounds strange or wrong. One way I learned this is by trying it, the other is by preaching. For some reason we marry our sermons and any criticism or question becomes a personal attack. I try to be more concerned for the person of the pastor than the content of his preaching these days.

Russell,
I see your point about gambling and lotteries as a social justice issue. It’s interesting, however, that the Southern Baptists, not known for emphasizing social justice, are the main ones mobilizing against the lottery issue, and the churches more oriented toward justice issues are fairly silent.

Welcome Dave – I enjoy your blog and have been recommending people to read your story of going into and out of pentefundieism, as it has a lot of elements that I can relate to.

For some reason I had a knee-jerk reaction to the “BHT is mostly evangelicals” label. Something to the effect of “Am I still an evangelical?” I hope not. But you’re probably right. Grrr.

My wife read something about someone winning 21 or so million in our state lottery and that after taxes they received $360K in cash. I’ve heard it said that “lotteries are taxes for people who don’t know math.” Makes sense to me; I love any tax I can opt out of…

When I first became a believer in the early ‘90’s, I heard the term “evangelical” and tried to find out what it meant. I found it a very nebulous word that meant many things to many people. It’s definition has morphed again and again in my mind; when used as an adjective it’s heavily modified by the noun it attempts to modify as well as by the person applying the term, i.e., “Evangelical Christian”, “Evangelical Free Church” and “Evangelical Lutheran Church in America” have widely different meanings. When a news personality says “Evangelical” it means something quite different than when an “Evangelical” Christian says “Evangelical”, which means something quite different than when most of us here in BHT say “Evanglelical”.

I don’t like the word, it’s definitions and connotations are too emotion-laden. I don’t like the word “faith” either, I’ve come to prefer “trust”.

Phillip, you seem to prefer “Anglican” over “Episcopal”, any reasons why?

Jim, is it syncretism when various strains within “Christiandom” blend together? I think of syncretism as the adoption of the beliefs and practices of systems outside of Christianity.

Tom,

I don’t know why Baptists are concerned about gambling from a religious perspective, but from a social justice perspective it would be wise to oppose the measure. In every state that I’m familiar with which subsidizes education with gambling money, this is just a trick so the state government can stop funding education out of its regular budget. This doesn’t end up meaning more net money to schools, it ends up meaning the same money, just from a different source.

Legal gambling amounts to exploitation of people who aren’t good at math. It’s the poor sods who spend their pension and social security checks trying to get rich that frequent these places, not people with money to burn.

Tom, thanks for the reply. I wish I had time now to interact with it; I hope I can get a chance to dig a bit deeper. One of the things I’m processing at the moment is a recent re-read of John Warwick Montegomery’s refutation of “presuppositional apologetics”, where he takes on Van Til and Dooyeweerd (my spelling is probably wrong). If I understand what Montegomery is saying, the problem with presuppositional arguments is that ultimately they have to deal with the problem of epistemology. If the fallen affects man’s ability to perceive the truth in the way that (some of) Van Til’s writings (and those of his followers) say, then nobody outside the faith can ever “know” anything that is true, but worse, even believers can’t really be sure that their belief is true, since the only way to perceive of the truth is to adopt the presuppositions, and there’s no basis for determining which set of presuppositions are in fact correct. Or, as someone once said in a class I took when discussing Plantinga, if truth is really systemic consistency, but our understanding of the nature of the system we operate in is affected by our eternal state, then there really is no truth, because there are multiple systems and no basis for evaluating their consistency other than “we presuppose.”

Seeing as how (as Michael recently reminded me) I’m neo-orthodox, none of this really affects me directly, except that I’m trying to sort through all of this as best I can. From what I can tell, there are three views of epistemology within Christianity:

• The presuppositional view, which includes Van Til, Schaeffer, Dooyeweerd and many (but not all) reformed thinkers)
• The propositional view, which includes Montegomery, maybe R. C. Sproul, and I’m sure lots of other great minds before we get to the McDowells and Stroebel.
• The personal view, which seems to be the position of the neo-orthodox theologians, but also is the (perhaps subconscious) operating perspective of most American evangelical Christians, including P/C folks as well as those involved in what I call the “new syncretism” – people who believe that the church is converging (a la Richard Foster’s Streams of Living Water) into a unified body where doctrinal differences will matter less than an inclusive spirit, a respect for different experiences of faith, and common methodologies – Willow Creek™ism or Warrenism lurks in there too, to some extent.

I don’t have a problem with a leap either (Montegomery certainly does), but that’s because for the time being at least I’m operating from the belief that truth is ultimately personal. But I’m not foolish enough to never question that belief, because there are plenty of other Christians who don’t agree, and plenty of scripture to support their views.

Boundless on Harem Dating

I posted week three’s excuse for what I’m starting to call my “Epic Church Hunt Saga”. Which, to save you great suspense, is simply made up of my excuses for not going to a church. Basically I was up too late the evening before drinking beer at a cast/crew get-together.