Kim Clement is on TBN saying that God told him Scott Petersen is going to become the next Apostle Paul.

Hat Tip to Joe Carter and Evangelical Outpost for typing out part of a print interview with the Eugene Peterson. Of course, it’s about the church.

What other church is there besides institutional? There’s nobody who doesn’t have problems with the church, because there’s sin in the church. But there’s no other place to be a Christian except the church. There’s sin in the local bank. There’s sin in the grocery stores. I really don’t understand this naà¹?ve criticism of the institution. I really don’t get it.

Frederick von Hugel said the institution of the church is like the bark on the tree. There’s no life in the bark. It’s dead wood. But it protects the life of the tree within. And the tree grows and grows and grows and grows. If you take the bark off, it’s prone to disease dehydration, death.

So, yes, the church is dead but it protects something alive. And when you try to have a church without bark, it doesn’t last long. It disappears, gets sick, and it’s prone to all kinds of disease, heresy, and narcissism.

In my writing, I hope to recover a sense of the reality of congregation – what it is. It’s a gift of the Holy Spirit. Why are we always idealizing what the Holy Spirit doesn’t idealize? There’s no idealization of the church in the Bible – none. We’ve got two thousand years of history now. Why are we so dumb?

Now I am like Yaconelli. The church is a zoo, and that’s why a chimp like me can actually be part of it.

A lurker sent me the following extended quote from Professor Pete Enns at Westminster Philly. It has to do with the dead horse, and the bold sections are from the lurker.

Vewy Vewy Vewy intewesting…. More »« Less

This is my third season with Gameday Audio. I’m contemplating getting MLB.TV. Probably won’t. MLB Radio.com is free and is very interesting stuff.

Ten Ways to Get Ready for Opening Day.

My baseball season began last week with OBI baseball practice. We’ve had all the non-basketball athletes this week. The basketball boys will join us when their season is over. Being an assistant Baseball coach has been the single best thing I’ve done for myself and my mental health. In fact, I’d recommend it to anyone on here. Time at the ballpark is a wonderful way to replace television.

An interview with Robert Louis Wilken, first rate historian of the early church, on the Creeds of the early church.

I appreciate prayers for my mom, but I am not asking anyone to pray she gets better. We simply pray that she will gratefully receive all the life and health that God has for her. I always think of what James Boice said when he told his congregation about his advanced liver cancer: I am not asking you to pray for healing, because I believe that God could have prevented this from occuring if that were his will. Aren’t Presbyterians annoying.

Some of you have messaged me and asked that I start a debate on Calvinism. My response: You do it.

Hey y’all. Long time, no type, I know. I have something I hope you’ll pray about.

As you all know, Kurt and I had our daughter in January. Since then I have been struggling with extremely low milk supply. I have tried all sorts of things from drinking stout, tea, various herbs and even perscribed drugs. Nothing has helped.

Would y’all please pray for me about this. I really want to breastfeed and it’s very frustrating and upsetting that this is going on. Please pray either that I get the milk I need to nourish my baby, or that I’ll have peace about not being able to.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

As I write below I am hockey starved and am now getting my sports fix from curling... But I am psyched. I have just purchassed the 2005 season of Major League Baseball Game Day Audio which gives access to every radio broadcast of every MLB team for the whole season. But who cares about every team – as long as I can get every game of the World Series Champion Boston Red Sox (I love writing that!). Anyway… this is a great deal for baseball fans who live in the outback. Less than 15 of your dollars for the whole season. Wow!

I have lived for the past 8 summers without the healing sounds of radio baseball in the background of my life. Something was missing. I can’t wait for the season to start. (And I love high speed connections!)

Some real life stuff for which the prayers of anyone are appreciated.

1) Next Tuesday, my mom (83) has last ditch surgery to save some of the sight in one eye. She is down to about 15% vision in one eye. This surgery won’t be laser. They will go into the eye and attempt to get blood out of the eye. MD is incurable, and my mom is brave, but total loss of vision would mean a move and the loss of her independence. She already feels the world has died all around her. Pray for Dorothy Spencer. If she gets to heaven before you, a good word from her could help, because as far as I know, she’s entirely sinless :-)

2) The pastor at the campus church suddenly resigned. I have never had a good relationship with the pastor of the local church, and I am now on my third. The first resigned because the school hired me. The second liked me until it became clear I was the more popular preacher, and he subjected me to continual, terrible public humiliation. The third seemed to do OK with me until I went back to MPC to preach. Since then it’s been….uh….”awkward,” to use a word. So he’s quit, and at some point between now and the end of school, he will no longer be preaching on Sunday p.m. or helping me with a.m. That means, at least for a while and maybe permanently, 4-6 more sermons a month. That could bring me up to as many as 18 sermons a month. Too many. But I could do it. I don’t want to do it. I want the church to get a pastor I can work with. So that’s my prayer. Oneida Baptist Church will get a pastor who can work with our school, and with me. Otherwise, I am going to start preaching the same 18 sermons in rotation.

3) As a result of the pastor’s resignation, the two, week-long “revivals” for the school are now my responsibility. This is a change we needed to make. Of course, I don’t like revivals, invitations or altar calls. It’s a problem. So I have to retool all of this. Three, 4 day meetings. A new name. (No more “revivals”) And I need to be out in front of the suggested speakers, etc that will be in my mailbox soon. We pay decently for these meetings, and ought to get good speakers and worship leaders. Any suggestions from the reading public will be welcome.

4) I just interviewed the best prospective staff members I’ve met in a long, long time. I pray they decide to come. Great people. Scott, Cathy and David. We need “real” science teachers. After years of Bob Jones textbooks, etc. our principal is ready to upgrade the science curriculum.

5) OBI has been in the chase for a grant for most of the last 6 months. We usually don’t do this sort of thing- don’t ask why. This time we did, and it has paid off. A very, very nice gift. The grant for textbooks will be the best gift our kids have received in years. Thank you Lord for some new friends.

As of last night, my ire is no longer directed solely at elitist Lutherans. I’ve dearly wanted to be a part of this conversation, but I’m fighting a damn virus on my computer. Symantec is no help whatsoever. I think that were Dante to be alive today, the tenth level of hell would be reserved for those who program computer viruses.

F&%$ing hackers!

You know you’re a Canadian when this turns your crank. I am hockey starved but even if the NHL were in full swing I would still care a lot about curling. Believe it or not this stuff is on prime time tv up here.

Curling is a beautiful sport. Not unlike baseball in its relaxed pace. The level of skill is incredible. That last shot by Ms. Jones was one of the most skillful things I’ve seen. I can make a 3-point basketball shot from time to time and not by accident. But there’s no way I can make a curling shot like that. It takes more skill to be a top curler than to be an NBA player.

I take it back. I hate theology, too.

Michael, great post.

I love the parable of the lost son. I hate to think it is “overused” because it IS but that’s okay. No one likes the son who stays home. Often we, the rich white folks in America can’t stand to see the rapist/murderer find forgiveness.

Speaking of Rick, I’ll have the opportunity to visit his church. Should I test the “James’” principle and dress sloppily or should I just attend and ask questions about regeneration?

Started a men’s group study of the story of the Prodigal Son this morning, and did some introduction.

What is a gospel? A gospel is the story of Jesus, but told with a purpose: A Gospel completes the story of Israel by telling the story of Jesus.

The story of Israel had ended badly: Creation, fall, flood, Abraham, Exodus, law, conquest, judges, 3 kings, division, destruction, exile, partial restoration, oppression….and there the story was, seemingly, on hold.

The Gospels begin with this story, but they continue it in the story of Jesus: Birth, Baptism, ministry, miracles, exorcisms, healings, teaching, inclusion, conflicts, Passion, Resurrection, Commission, Empowering. (And, of course, Acts continues the story of Jesus in the story of the apostles.)

To see how the Gospels are doing this, look at two “songs” in Luke 1:46-55, and Zechariah, Luke 1:67-79. Both of these songs are the voice of Israel, proclaiming that, in Jesus, God is completing all that he promised to do, and repairing all the damage of the exile and oppression. They are remarkable passages when read this way, and not just as individual expressions.

Each of the Gospels does this. Mark does it through a secret. Matthew through fulfillment of OT citations and connections. Luke by interpreting the story of Israel/Jesus for the Gentile world. John by Jesus replacing the various festivals and rituals of Judaism.

Now that we understand this, we can read Luke 15, and get some sense of what Jesus is doing. Luke 15:1-2 tells us that the story we are about to hear was told to subvert the approach of the Pharisees. Their way of being Israel was the way of separation, purity and traditions. Jesus frequently aimed his ministry at the worldview of the Pharisees, and many of his actions and teachings were not only directly confronting their approach to “being Israel,” but subverting their entire way of thinking about God.

To substantiate their “traditions” and use of “holiness” as a way of power, the Pharisees theologized and taught a God who excluded and condemned sinners. Jesus proclaims and embodies a God who is including, forgiving, reaching beyond barriers and over traditions. The Father, according to Jesus, genuinely delights in forgiving and restoring, and that is as true for the tax collector on the corner or the demoniac in the cemetary as it is for all Jerusalem or the whole nation.

Jesus reminds us that not only are we the younger son, we also may be the older brother, threatened if God isn’t cooperating with our system of control and guranteed outcomes. We may also be worshipping the wrong God, because God delights in and celebrates the inclusion and restoration of rebels, outsiders and lost people.

First, I want to apologize to the bar for disturbing what has been a peaceful month. I wish I could explain what is happening here, but I am not sure I understand. Correction. I do understand this much: I feel personally attacked when Joell hauls Calvinism into a discussion. That’s my issue and my problem. I need to just back up and back out, which is what I am going to do. That’s the end of it. Best that I can, I won’t involve myself in this kind of discussion again.

On to another subject. Dawn Treader has an extensive set of links to bloggers and commenters concerned that the Emergent Church is a bad, bad thing. Read it and consider it for yourself.

For those of you who don’t know, this article has generated a huge volume of mail at IM. It’s about how a rather mediocre book by a megachurch pastor has made millions of dollars, and we are all supposed to like it. If you don’t like it, there is something wrong with you. If being told that you are a loser and you don’t love the lost unless your church does what this pastor says and does irritates you, there is something wrong with you. If you find the advice in his books pedantic, ordinary, trite and heavy-handed, there is something wrong with you. If the whole thing- from books to videos to satellite feeds to more books and more videos and monogramed journals and bathroom tissue- leaves you disgusted, there is something wrong with you.

Like it all. Try harder. Do as you are told….be a good little consumeristic sheep. Don’t think for yourself. That’s not “Christian.” If you don’t buy the lie that some pastors are more important than others, keep it to yourself. It might irritate someone who is doing the newest Christian bookstore produced fad.

Don’t say ANYTHING critical about this pastor, because God has raised him up to lead us through the darkness. How do we know this? Look at this big church and his big numbers! Size matters!

Something I can sink my teeth into! Potlucks!

[Edited}

Seerveld on how to read the Bible. Excellent, and NO, I didn’t steal any ideas from him. We’re just both right.

Michael: thank you for the encouraging words.

I think we are done. Annie met with the lady in charge of the women’s ministry today for an hour and a half. I am proud of my wife for searching the scriptures so diligently to prepare, she had about 8 pages of notes with biblical support for her position. The meeting was definitely friendly, and frankly they agreed on most details of doctrine. It’s God working through us, God initiates salvation, etc. Basically agreeing with Annie’s points. She even brought a Piper book to the meeting.

But here is the difference – the ministry leader thought that by Annie’s method (theology of the cross) and the study’s method (theology of glory) that you end up in the same place. That the goals are the same. That it’s just different ways of saying the same thing. Then she offered to let Annie be over the entire women’s study as the trainer for the small group leaders, but only if Annie agreed that the study was a good building block to start from, thought it was a valid spiritual life method, etc.

Meanwhile I was able to talk to one of our elders that I know pretty well. We had taken a few seminary classes together. Basically our church doesn’t have any statement that defines their method of teaching the spiritual life. This is the problem with Dallas Seminary: he had heard the exact same teaching as the study (complete with the gnostic-like problems) from some professors, and good theology of the cross from others. Everyone at our church is associated with Dallas that has a degree, and since the seminary doesn’t take a hard stance on it we don’t either. I don’t have any bitterness about that really, just frustrated that they don’t rule out some things without feeling like they are too dogmatic. I mean, we are an independent bible church with people from a variety of backgrounds, so I can’t expect denominational level doctrinal commitment.

So it struck me how completely postmodern our church is. Through the conversation with the elder, it came up that we are being intentionally vague in a lot of doctrinal areas in order to be a church home for the widest amount of people. This seems like a baby-boomer and Gen X preference. I’m finding that those in our age range that we spend time with (25-30) want more doctrinal commitment and more tradition. We are generally tired of the cheesiness.

Right now we are thankful that we are still on good terms with everyone that we’ve talked to, and a little depressed at how it is all unfolding.

While we were in SoCal for my grandmother’s funeral, she wished to be buried next to my father and grandfather, we toured around my old “stomping grounds”. One evening we wanted to take a walk and as Anaheim had changed quite a lot I thought that it would be wise to walk around the Disneyland Hotel…tourist areas are quite safe. The area was quite changed from my growing up years, I went to high school only a half a mile away so this area was very familiar to me growing up, but it had changed in the last fifteen years. I could barely find my way around.

We ended up having a delightful walk in the Disneyland Downtown area, it was a cool area between the Hotel and the Main Gate at the Park. There were lots of shops and restaurants and we walked, held hands and shared a smoothie. There were lots of people, but it was different, quite entertaining and one of the few rain-less times of our visit.

The next day we drove up to Silverado Canyon to visit friends, this is an old mining area to the east of the LA/Orange County Basin that’s now become a refuge for those trying to enjoy a bit of rural life in one of the biggest, most sprawling cities in the world. As we exited the canyon area and came back to the metro area we drove past Saddleback Church in Lake Forest CA. It was 6:35 on Saturday evening so I decided that we’d see if there was a Saturday nite service…there was, we went.

I could go on for quite a while about the motivational presentation given about leadership that evening, complete with tag-team presenters and music breaks. Mr. Warren’s Bible version agility is apparent in his “study handout”. There was a superb guitar solo during the offering, superb. Mr. Warren did tell an interesting story to everyone’s delight of how he was on a plane with a bunch of professional athletes and people kept coming to him for autographs, and he did say he was able to give Dennis Rodman (sp?) a copy of “the book”. There were about 1,500 very enthusiastic people there that evening and as we searched for a restroom after the show we walked about the “campus” and realized a very important thing about Saddleback Church and Rick Warren.

They make sense a day after visiting Disneyland. Saddleback Church is a perfect reflection of the shallow SoCal culture.

Tommy: As I have said before, I would strongly urge you and your wife to move on, and I don’t say that out of some need for everyone to become Reformed. I say it with some pastoral wisdom- I hope- about these situations.

Your church leaders have a theology and a chosen direction: dispensationalism, exchanged life teaching, and Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven Model. If you can’t support these things, you need to leave. You won’t change them. The PDC model tells those guys what to do with you. I can tell you what they say about you when you leave the room, because I’ve been in the room. Nothing you will do will correct this direction. They will say they appreciate it, they will promise to take your concerns seriously, they will shuffle it to the appropriate staff members, and you will continue to be either 1) an annoying burr in their saddle or 2) a guy they expect to lose and therefore won’t try to accomodate.

If I am wrong here, then I rejoice in being wrong.

Tommy, LIFE IS SHORT. You should thank this church for all its done for you, and move on to somewhere else. We all need to attend a church where our thoughts and worship are directed toward God, rather than toward the theology of the preacher or the problems we have with the direction of the church. That hour or two is precious. It’s important for you and your family, and it all needs to be about God and the Gospel. Not the kid’s programs or the latest fad. God-centered worship. Period. Find that place. I’ll be glad to help if you need help.

peace, MSpencer

Stand-up Presbyterians in Taiwan.

Michael Horton’s article put it all in perspective for me: What we’ve been going through at our church, my rapidly declining allegiance to dispensationalism, why my spiritual life was shriveling up, all of it.

I’ll have to make a long post about my theological and spiritual journey. All I want to do right now is cuss.

I just subscribed to Modern Reformation BTW.

Century One Bookstore. Great prices and good selection on material for Biblical Study.

Alex has good problems.

Next Sunday may well mark the day that our SBC church elects its first women deacons. The majority are in favor of it but there is some opposition. Ultimately it was decided to allow the Elders (a very un-SBC situation itself) to decide the matter and we agreed to allow women to serve if nominated and elected.

Our deacons do not have any spiritual authority. They are in charge of the grounds, ordinance preparation, benevolence, etc.

This is the thing that puzzles me greatly. Those that oppose electing women don’t have a problem in the world with women performing any of the duties listed above as long as we don’t call them deacons.

In other words, women can do deacon stuff, as long as they aren’t called deacons.

Is God fooled by this? If women can’t be called servants, then they can’t serve. It’s as simple as that.

Let my heresy trial begin.

Excellent article by David Wayne on forgiving the unrepentant.

How do KJV-Onlyists deal with the fact that King James was a raving homosexual?

The tasty bit of news that I like to drop on the KJV-onlyists is that for quite a few years the “Authorized Version” contained the Apocrypha, I don’t believe it was dropped until the early 1800’s. About half the onlyists that I’ve met believe that “authorized” refers to God, not to King James…weird. Their cultural paradigm is as Kurt said, indeed narrow. Being partly Jewish I find replacement theology one of the most difficult to tolerate.

In my never-ending quest to add nothing of substance to the BHT, I submit this quote from Brennan Manning. I know several of you have read and enjoyed his writing. This comes from The Ragamuffin Gospel. “Aristotle says I am a rational animal. I say I am an angel with an incredible capacity for beer.” Amen, brother.

Also, has anyone seen this? I have no idea why I’m so enthralled, but I find this hilarious. Not only that, but because the song is stuck in my head, I ended up downloading Dragostea Din Tei by O-Zone. Maybe JS can translate for me since it’s in Romanian.

I like what Jared and the others are doing here. Can we do something like that here? If not, I’m going to go ahead an order the book that the Thinklings are going to read and particpate with them. I really think this would be something fun for us to do and I need this kind of interaction.

I just finished reading “What St. Paul Really Said”, and I just received “The New Testament and the People of God” in the mail and I’m starting it today. (Also got Leith’s Creeds of the Churches and Piper’s DVD set for my home group.)

So, here are a few thoughts:

Piper v. Wright
If you listened to Piper’s talks at the Reformission conference page, you heard him get upset at Wright calling the imputation of righteousness nonsense. Here is the section in “What St. Paul…” (Pg. 122-123) that got him riled up:

I really enjoyed the book, it is a good read, and you can read it quickly. I wanted a general introduction to what he was going to say in his thicker volumes before I waded into them. I think what is frustrating about Wright is that he is trying to change the basic language that we have used post-Reformation, and doesn’t offer us language to replace it. I.e. he redefines what justification means, what the gospel means, what the righteousness of the believer means, etc. An example is found on page 41:

You can react one of two ways to what Wright is doing. 1) lose your faith for a time like a commenter said happened to him. If you do, you are ignoring statements like the one above where he says he agrees with you and to keep doing what you are doing, only use some different language for it. 2) Incorporate some or all of his language on certain subjects into what we use. I found that the way he described the law-court analogies in the NT to be very helpful. I personally am not ready to ditch the imputed righteousness of Christ, but I have to take seriously what Wright wrote about it. Interestingly enough, Doug Moo agrees with some of Wright’s conclusions about “the righteousness of God” meaning that it is God’s own righteousness that He does not give any other, although Moo thinks that it only means this on select occasions, not every time.

Regardless of whether you end up agreeing with Wright or not, his scholarship is top-notch and deserves to be read. This isn’t another new philsophical fad like Open Theism, this is rooted firmly in the Old Testament, the history of 2nd Temple Judaism, and the New Testament. He takes the Word of God very seriously, and it is reflected in his writing.

I usually try to respect opposing viewpoints in the world of Christendom. For example, I’m not throwing my lot in with the Young Earthers, but it doesn’t bother me if somebody holds that view. Same with Dispensationalists. I mean, I feel I was delivered from “Lahaye-ism”, but I’m not about to call my mom up and argue about how Left Behind is poopy.

But KJV-onlyism…I just can’t politely disagree there. It’s just crazy and bunk and rubbish. I mean, even the KJV is prefaced with a note that it is only an imperfect translation and better ones will come in the future. (Or something like that…need to find and frame the exact text).

The other thing that drives me up the wall is that KJV-onlyism is an Anglo-centric view at its worst. Coincidence that the only true translation would be in English? Of course, because the United States of America is the New Jerusalem. Amen.

Brrrr.

Are KJVonlyists the best Christians?

They certainly have the highest view of the scriptures. Holding to the doctrine that a bible that we have now is the inspired, infallible Word of God.

In fact, to deny the KJV is to deny God.

OR…are KJVonlyists a dangerous and frightening cult?

If your wife has pierced ears…you are in trouble. The whole Biblical message on piercings and jewelry...right here in the Boar’s Head Saturday Bible Study, led by Van Til the BHT’s Magic Tail Chasing Dog. Everyone get your NIV/BHT Study Bible and head for the back room.

The founder of Gospel for Asia- a group Denise and I gladly support at every opportunity- talks about persecution and the sad preaching of American televangelists. Listen to this man. He’s a wise person, and his words about American “No Gospel” preaching are prophetic. Osteeniacs- read and consider what he’s talking about.

I am approaching the conclusion of “The New Testament and the People of God,” so it’s now safe to say that Open-Source Theology has a summary of the entire book. The first two sections are daunting to most people, but the last two sections are accessible, ground-breaking, and highly significant. Denise has been reading “The Challenge of Jesus,” which takes a short view of some of the same material in Wright’s first two big books. So we’ve had some interesting conversations, particularly as she encounters Wright’s ideas for the first time. (She frequently tells me where my past teaching has gone directly counter to NTW :-)

Crucial to Wright’s work is comprehending the larger “story” that is the first century Jewish worldview. Wright doesn’t harp or rant, but he clearly says that when we approach the New Testament, and then the Old Testament, as books with a Christian (I would say “protestant evangelical”) story and worldview, we are bouncing happily along the wrong road. The resulting effect on interpreting the smaller units of New Testament material can be fairly traumatic to Baptists like me, who have worked some passages from the standpoint of Christian evangelism so long that we don’t know what to do when someone turns on the light and we realize we’ve quite possible been in the wrong room saying the wrong thing for a long time. This has been doubled up for me as I go through Mark section by section with my Advanced Bible students, and look at those stories, parables and teachings in the “Wright light.” If he’s “right,” I’ve been right on some things, and way wrong on others.

Just to be basic, my students ask a lot of questions from the standpoint of the Christian, protestant, evangelical, revivalist way of reading the Bible. “When did Peter become a Christian?” for example. Wright would point out that what we have is a record of Peter considering if Jesus is the Messiah, what kind of Messiah Jesus is, how his life is affected by the Messiahship of Jesus, what Jesus as risen Messiah means for Peter’s conception of Israel’s God, etc. Is there a moment where Peter “comes to faith” in the uniquely Christian sense? Prays the sinners prayer in a revivalistic, evangelical way? Goes from lost to found in an identifiable moment? Wright says we’re asking the wrong questions and are going to find wrong answers.

The danger then becomes this: Are all the stories, etc in the New Testament “big picture” stories about Israel rather than stories and teachings about individual faith, etc? If the story of, for example, the Prodigal Son is really about the end of the continuing exile of Israel from God’s favor, and the acceptance of God’s new kind of Kingdom in Jesus, can we preach that evangelically to the people in front of us? I say absolutely yes. What it says to Israel, and to those deciding to stand with or against a God who takes back such a people, is just as true for each of us, as we decide whether we identify with, trust and serve such a God. What may have been true about Israel is true about Israelites, and Gentiles (Paul’s Gospel) and eventually, according to Wright, the story of Jesus is heard as the story of the Jewish people, and I would say, the story of all of us. Our story is the story of Israel and Israel’s God, and God’s Gospel to them, and us, is Jesus.

It’s a bit scary, but it’s done more to bring all sorts of things together than anything else I’ve read. We’re enjoying it.

The phrase “original autographs” makes me laugh until my sides hurt.

“I believe that the Bible is inerrant in the original autographs.” OK. You can believe that. I believe that the surface of the planet Venus was once a garden paradise, occupied by highly intelligent flying squirrels. With all my heart.

And that fact changes my life exactly as much as the “proverbial original autographs” do for inerrancy holders.

Paul dictates a letter to “the churches in asia minor.” Let’s say that it’s going to 4, maybe 6 churches. Simultaneously. Now, he might have dictated a single copy, or maybe, just maybe, he had the scribe make 4 or 6 copies at once, and sent them all on their way. Which copy is “inerrant”?

Inerrancy that doesn’t apply to documents that actually exist is inoperative. It’s useless. It has no practical implication. You could just as well say that John Norman’s Gor novels were “inerrant in their original autographs” (although perhaps those still exist…), or Beowolf was inerrant, or that God revealed himself in the pattern of residue left in the pan when you fried an egg last week, but your mom accidentally washed it before you could show anyone. Or that an angel told you where gold plates were buried, and gave you some special glasses and underwear to use when reading them, but then the angel came and took the plates back.

If you believe that “something” was without error “some time”, but got “lost”, then you’re hoping that somehow a bit of that rubs off on your particular copies. I don’t care how you couch it, or how much you insist.

When you believe in things that you don’t understand, you suffer. – Stevie Wonder, well-known theologian.