Over on the Advent blog, Richard posts a great reminder of one of the foundational verses of Christianity. While it does not explicitly mention Christ, Micah 6:8 positively reeks of the Gospel when talking about mercy. What greater mercy is there than the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for us, miserable offenders that we are?

Like most modernists (I confess, as if it wasn’t obvious already), I’m fond of succinct lists of things to do or not do. Christianity is much more difficult than that, since there is nothing really to “do” and it’s all about a relationship with God almighty.

But there are still lists in the Bible, nods to those of us who crave them, and Micah 6:8 has always been a challenging one to me. More »« Less

Terry: Belated greetings to you!!

In Champaign, IL, there is a Church of Christ that thinks that they are the only true church in town. They recruit people from other churches, and are cultic in their control over members lives. One of my friends joined there and proceeded to declare the rest of us to be unbelievers. They may be associated with a group called the Boston Church of Christ.

Does this group sound like an offshoot of one of the three groups of CoC that you mentioned, or are there other Church of Christ groups that have a different ancestry? I realize that this church is very aberrant, and doesn’t reflect on other CoC churches.

Phillip – I’ve met you. You’re not grumpy. You are more of a jolly cynic. Remember your post when you had to try so hard to hate people?

Brad makes a point that I’ve noted for years: Many of those we revere in Christian history were remarkably open about their emotional life and struggles. Spurgeon, in particular, said and preached a great deal about his personal melancholy. In fact, he said far more than I ever would in the pulpit.

As I wind up the Mental Illness posts at IM, one of my key points is that the presence of brokenness among God’s people is a sacramental presence. It isn’t just broken bread that shows us Christ; it is the broken people in whom the Gospel is true. To see the Gospel’s “wholeness” as an erasing of the reality of human pain and experience is to make the Gospel gnosticism, and a rather dull, flat gnosticism at that.

“Why, O my soul, art thou disquited within me?” Another question: Why, Holy Spirit, do you inspire those words for the edification of your people?

PW: I have it on good authority that you will make the “manic” list, but not the grumpy list.

I’m gonna kick that relentless optimist dude in the seat of his britches for skipping me. Who on earth thinks I’m not the grumpiest guy in here? Okay, second-grumpiest.

It is truly an amazing Savior we serve who laid down His life for the group of losers I find in this bar. Wow. {:)}

Remember to send Santa (me) an ‘opt in’ for BHT Christmas, don’t forget your physical address.

The Relentless Optimist here. I hope everyone has had a great day, because we are going to take a significant step toward making the BHT a happier place.

It’s been pointed out by people who care about you guys that the bar has gotten gloomy. Too much smoke (not healthy). Not enough air. Bad music. Lights dim. It’s not a place that children would find very welcoming, guys. This isn’t Chuck E. Cheeses, that’s for sure.

So we need to get to the root of the problem, and I think that problems with happiness are always people problems. Happy people. Happy place. Happy place. More happy people.

So, don’t think I’ve gone all “Nanny 911” on you, but we need to name some names. We need to talk about the five grumpiest people in the bar.

Let’s sit in a circle, hold hands, and all promise to be grown ups about this. Here we go. (Big big hugs when we’re all done.)

#5 Bill: Bill…I know you haven’t killed anything this year, but you are drinking, and you’ve had Hillary Clinton in your lap. So can’t we work up a little smile? Please.

#4 Kurt: Now come on my Afro-Sweetie. Admit that you are a surly one. You don’t like your diet and you’d rather be at the movies, but is that any reason to sit back there and grouse? Cut that hair, have a “Happy Ale” and bring out that smile.

#3 Jim: Now Jimmy. Times are bad in New Jersey. Yes….there’s been a little trouble knocking on your door. But can we please straighten those glasses? Can we sing a happy song? Can we lose that “jn” and add a smiley face to those posts? I know there’s a happy man in there somewhere. You’ve hugged Brennan Manning. Act like it.

#2. Josh, Josh, Josh, Josh: When life gives you lemons, you have to make lemonade! Don’t think that the only woman in the world is a Catholic babe in Spain. There’s some bright eyed little cheerleader at one of those mega churches just waiting to praise and worship her way right into your heart. Play a happy tune on that big guitar. How can anyone so slim be grouchy? Cheer up!

and…

#1 Michael….get that lip off the floor. Get out of that corner. Give that man a kleenex. It’s alright. We’re all here for you. When they pick on you, you just need to blow this happy whistle and say “I’m good enough, I’m orthodox enough, and I’m not going to be ashamed of all the emotionally outrageous and highly inappropriate things that I write!” You stand up to those boys! You show them that nothing is going to get you down. In fact, we’ve all chipped in and bought you a “Happy Monk Puppet,” so if you are ever tempted to say naughty words, you can put on the puppet and say happy things.

Now…that wasn’t so bad, was it? We’re going to have a happy bar from now on. I can just feel it comin’ on!

What’s wrong with Jack? Oh My!!! What did he say!?!

So, to quote my good friend Pedro, “Was she hot?”

InternetMonk.com, a web site some of you may have heard of, recently updated:

I reran “Does The Story Matter?” You won’t be surprised that answers differ.

I linked an older piece by RLP: “There’s Something About The Way You Use The Bible.” One of his best.

And I wrote installment #5 on the Christian and Mental Illness, suggesting how the church should think about the mentally ill.

The Relentless Optimist had a large post that got killed by power blinking, but that won’t discourage him. He’ll have it back up. Hint: He’s naming names of the Top Five BHTers who need to cheer up.

Why do I keep thinking of this?

Barney Fife: Well, today’s eight-year-olds are tomorrow’s teenagers. I say this calls for action and now! Nip it in the bud! First sign of youngsters going wrong, you’ve got to nip it in the bud.
Andy Taylor: I’m going to have a talk with them. What else do you want me to do?
Barney Fife: Well, don’t just mollycoddle them.
Andy Taylor: I won’t.
Barney Fife: Nip it! You go read any book you ant on the subject of child discipline and you’ll find every one of them is in favor of bud-nipping.

Terry: that if I stick to Bible terms and phrases—and make a reasonable attempt to avoid some of the most obvious theological buzzwords—I can teach the truth without disrupting a church or becoming a martyr.

Ha! And again I say Ha!! I have found just the opposite. When I stick to bible terms and phrases and avoid theological buzzwords (I call it churchspeak) that is precisely when I am most disruptive, as evidenced by my latest foray into teaching my men’s study about Decision Making and God speaking. I still have the bruises.

Phillip: You might pass along to your friend that I have found that in teaching an alternative doctrinal view (e.g., shades of Calvinism in a traditionally Arminian church), that if I stick to Bible terms and phrases—and make a reasonable attempt to avoid some of the most obvious theological buzzwords—I can teach the truth without disrupting a church or becoming a martyr. (After all, was Paul a Calvinist?) I also have found that if I teach it as one possible way to understand these things, confessing that I may not have the final answer on hard questions that Christians have been wrangling over for years, that I am more successful in prompting some new ways of thinking.

Don’t forget, Josh went to Southland a time or two :-)

That was before he went all international on us.

Terry: I have a friend, someone with whom I break bread every Tuesday morning, who is still in a Church of Christ, but clings tightly to a Calvinist soteriology. Quite often our weekly Bible study becomes “Phillip and B——share how the backgrounds undermined assurance, or faith, or what have you, in stark contrast to the clear presentation of God’s sovereignty and the Gospel in 1 John, Philippians, Isaiah, or whatever the passage we’re studying this week is.”

I have often wondered how he remains in the Church of Christ, but all of his family and many of his friends are there, and they wouldn’t take kindly to him leaving. As it is, he will soon beging teaching an adult Bible study at his church, and he plans to soak the class members in the positive marvel of God’s grace in election.

On a related note, I can understand how, for some people, God’s sovereignty becomes the be-all and end-all of life, because it’s so foreign to what most of us have been taught as children, and yet so permeates Scripture that it seems inconceivable that I never saw it before. As it happens, though, while God saves whom He wills, we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ, not by faith in Calvin, which is how I cling to the same Savior that my Arminian friends do, and even—though this more difficult—my non-baby-baptizing “reformed Baptist” friends like Michael and Bill. {:)}

Since you’re here, I’m assuming that your experience and beliefs are somewhat similar in some ways. See, there’s a label for you!

Michael: Those are the churches. Yes, I thought somebody in Kentucky would surely be familiar with our brand of evangelicalism. Every independent Christian church looks to SECC in Louisville as the ultimate in churchdom, and Bob Russell is our Rick Warren.

I’ll discuss baptismal regeneration with you whenever you force me to, and no sooner. I’ll say this much for now. In earlier days (i.e., my Bible college days), the Christian churches loved to take issue with what they described as the “faith only” churches. But I decided rather early on, that since the Apostle Paul is the first and premier spokesman of the faith-only position, I really didn’t want to position myself in some opposing camp. Any view on baptism must complement the Scriptures’ clear teaching that we are saved by grace through faith.

Please remember physical addresses when you send Santa an ‘opt in’ for the BHT Christmas.

I know your branch well, and thank God for them. The largest churches in our state are all Indy Christian Churches: Southeast in Louisville, Southland in Lexington and Owensboro in Owensboro. All experienced incredible growth the last 25 years. The larger two are examplar mega-churches in every respect. As far as mega-churches go, these are good, solid examples of conservative evangelicalism. Bob Russell is, of course, pope in these parts.

I have been amused at Russell’s methods of morphing the Campbellite position on baptism from its historical roots to something quite palatable to Baptists and Catholics alike. (These churches have claimed a huge number of baby boomer SBCers and RCs coming back to church. Singles and youth programs in the thousands.) Don’t think you will hang out in here and escape a discussion on Baptismal regeneration, complete with Campbellite stereotypes as I learned them as a Baptist boy.(jn) (My CofC friends helped me stay in practice.)

On the road past my house, there is a “Christian Church of Christ.” I don’t even want to take the smallest chance :-) If you haven’t been worked over by a Church of Christ zealot, you aren’t fit to preach around here. Now, if the Lord would grant me three wishes, a busfull of Christ of Christ fanatics to send wherever I wanted would be one great reality show.

Michael: In my introductory profile, I described myself as part of the “center branch” of the Restoration Movement, aka Campbell-Stone Movement. That movement, which I believe to have been, at least in its origin, a genuine movement of the Holy Spirit, began in the early 1800s here in the U.S. In the 200 years since then, that movement has splintered into at least three branches. The churches I attend are “the center branch,” the “independent Christian churches.” The other branches are the non-instrumental Churches of Christ on one side and the Disciples of Christ denomination on the other—both of which you mentioned in your post. While recognizing that there are good Christians, good preachers/thinkers, and good churches in each of those branches, I would not wish to be identified with the legalism and sectarianism that often exists in the aca pella churches or the liberalism that is common, as you say, in the DOC.

The independent Christian churches are my home church—I grew up in them, found the Lord in them, received my Biblical training in their colleges, and have been a preacher in their pulpits for many years. However, that one label is not a sufficient description of my faith.

For example, the Christian churches tend toward Arminianism. However, one of the most significant events of my faith—a day I still remember vividly more than 20 years later—was the day my eyes were opened to the sovereignty of God. I have often said that you can open the Bible to any page and I will preach the sovereignty of God from that page. Because it is there, plain to see, from Genesis to Revelation. Recognizing the doctrine of God’s sovereignty, and its practical application in seeing God’s hand at work in the details of my life, has transformed my relationship with God.

However, I did not learn that teaching in the Christian churches of which I am part, but rather from a little booklet I came across that contained nothing but scores of Bible verses—and which had a picture of a tulip on its cover.

Douglas, MT is too slow for words today.

Is it me, or is Movable Type acting funky today?

The Disciples of Christ/Christian Church in Kentucky is quite liberal. The seminary is very liberal, and the ministers I know would probably be comfortably calling themselves liberal. Of course, the folks in the churches are a different story, varying widely depending on where you are. I have a good friend who is a DOC pastor in a university town. The DOC/CC is a large presence in my home community of Owensboro, as are the Churches of Christ, non-instrumental, obnoxious and aggressive.

So Terry can be whatever he wants to be. Campbellites have the options. But I was putting my money on someone left of center. But you can stay no matter what. Just give the dog a peanut.

Labels: I’ll happily wear a label if it fits. Or maybe I should say, to the extent that it fits, and isn’t deceptive or confusing, I will wear a label. That’s why I no longer call myself a Calvinist. I probably believe 80% of what any Calvinist believes, but explaining that you are more Eugene Peterson than R.C. Jr is just too difficult. Plus, to use the house analogy I used at IM back in the day, you have to decide how much you want to be pre-judged by association with other people who live in the house. I’m at the point where some names work for me- like conservative- and others don’t work at all- I am not emergent, and only people who with an agenda would say I am.

But all of us should grant other people the courtesy of letting them explain their labels. Phillip is ECUSA but he isn’t looking to ordain Gene Robinson. I’m Southern Baptist, but more in terms of heritage and minimal confessionalism than identification with the current wretched urgency. We have to be aware that some people use labels to escape the truth completely, but if we would just explain how we use our labels, and take people at their word, it would be helpful.

I say on my bio that I am a “theological adventurer.” I tell anyone who will listen that I am a Christian humanist. Or a catholic Christian.

BTW- there is an astounding amount of posting all around on simple factual matters about me. Good grief. Read!

Terry: Welcome! Don’t worry about keeping up with whatever you may have thought was going on here recently. That’s all behind us now, as we’ve sprayed the inside of the Tavern window with that snow-in-a-can stuff so we can ignore the folks pressing their faces and other body parts against the glass. {:)}

I’d been staying away for a while, but as the gentle mantle of snow has fallen on the sidewalk outside the Tavern, it seems a peaceful and tranquil place again, so I’ve parked myself in my usual chair and am picking up the same conversations again. Have a drink on me!

My only problem is labels is that there aren’t enough of them. I understand the desire to not start from scratch, but it seems like most labels go just a bit too far, and few people want to hear “I’m an X except that I don’t believe Y or Z” or “I’m an A-B-C guy, plus a little of G.” The next thing you know, people are claiming that it is impossible to combine B and G, which seems quite a silly thing to say when faced with one who has!

Mark me down as the guy who picked major arguments with so-called “post-modern Christianity” until (IIRC) people left the bar. I picked up Chesterton’s Orthodoxy and McLaren’s New Kind of Christian recently and couldn’t even bring myself to finish McLaren. Awful, awful stuff. Dreadfully ignorant and badly-focused to boot. Especially lacking when compared to the masterpiece of Orthodoxy.

And yet don’t assume from that that I wouldn’t break bread with McLaren, or that I consider all of his criticisms of modern Western evangelicalism to be misguided. Many, if not most, of his criticisms are actually pretty familiar to me, and accurate when applied to the subset of churches against which he is reacting. I just think he mostly misses out when he tries to offer alternatives. Give him time. I doubt he’ll ever be the writer I would wish for, but then, neither will I!

So how do you label me on that basis? Call me “post-modern” or “emergent,” I’m likely to ask you step outside to tussle in the snow. But call me whatever those that want to burn McLaren’s house down are called, and you might get a similar reaction. {:)}

Douglas: I once thought that myself. But after the 234,945,346th repeat of ACS on cable TV, its charms start to wear thin. (JN)

I’m only up to about 234,932,477 times, so it’s still fresh and new to me. Besides, it’s tradition. I thought all you liturgical types would appreciate that.

Terry, I actually entered the Tavern right at the start of the very first bruhaha, after Michael wrote, “I’m Not Like You.” Welcome to our craziness.

I was really hoping for a liberal hippie, though. (jn)

Josh: To be fair, it was not Challies himself who wrote that reply I quoted, but one of his co-bloggers at the Community Blog over there – the one who has been blasting the Emergents in a number of posts.

Bill says, The second best part about Christmas? A Christmas Story (movie)

I once thought that myself. But after the 234,945,346th repeat of ACS on cable TV, its charms start to wear thin. (JN)

Wow. After dropping into the BHT for the first time just five days ago, I absented myself for a few days for some holiday travel, family, turkey, etc. Stopped back into the tavern this morning to see what’s on the breakfast menu. Amazing.

• I am amazed, first, that I happened to grace this place at the precise moment war was erupting with several other fine establishments in the neighborhood. Story of my life. Timing has never been my strong suit. It will surely take me weeks to identify all of the talkers and cross-talkers and really cross-talkers, before I dare open my mouth here about anything substantive. I confess to a temptation to hit the door running – but looks like the fuss has died down a bit, so guess I’ll hang around awhile longer.

• I am amazed, also, to discover that BHT is not the quaint little neighborhood bar at the end of the alley that I thought it was. Michael posted some statistics to prove it. Quite impressive. Even without the stats, the last few days of blogs and links make it apparent enough. I thought I was strolling into a pleasant little place where one might find a quiet corner, settle in with a frosty mug, while away some time, and make a friend or two. Not as easy to do when you discover that there are so many others – some friendly and many not so much – with their noses pressed up against every window, ringing on the telephone incessantly, and even clamoring around up on the roof. Oh well, guess I’m just exposing my naivet้. After all, this is the “world wide web.” That causes me some pause, and should, perhaps, cause all of us some pause. The whole world really is watching.

• I was amused that Michael introduced me as one who promised some liberal posts. I don’t know if he was pulling your leg, my leg, or his own. I don’t have the same taste for labels that many of you do, but one label I am certain does not apply to me is liberal (theologically). I imagine you will find my doctrinal tendencies to be more conservative than some of yours. I can live with that if you can.

• Re (theological) labels: They serve a purpose, I suppose. After 2,000 years of exegeting the Christian faith, it would be hard to have much of any kind of discussion if we had to start from scratch each time we talk. The labels help us define where we agree and disagree, to give a context to our conversations. So, yes, labels can be helpful tools—but the danger is that the conversation becomes all about the labels, which is just one step removed from the conversation being about nothing at all. In surfing several sites caught up in the recent blogstorm, it appears to me that the talk is often more about the labels than about anything of genuine value. At least every now and then, Christians should agree to exclude all capitalized words and all words with more than three syllables from our conversations, and see if we have any words left with which to express what we really think.

• Thanks for the hearty welcome many of you extended. Look forward to getting to know you better. A couple of you responded with follow-up questions/comments to my brief introductory comment about hearing God’s voice. It is a subject I like, and in fact, the subject that provoked me to join this conversation in the first place. Perhaps I will say more on that subject, if the conversation swings around that way again. For now, I think I’ll just sit here in my corner booth and listen awhile longer.

• Can’t resist commenting on “The Relentless Optimist.” I just want everyone to know, he may have showed up at the BHT about the same time I did, but we did NOT come in together. Try as he might, he is not going to get me to start singing. I guess the BHT will let anybody into this place. First me, and then a Brianite. But wait a minute. Is “The Relentless Optimist” really just another avatar of our gracious host, Michael Spencer? If so, that fellow has more names – and labels – than we had empty seats in church yesterday. I’m just getting to know MS/IM, but I have a gut suspicion that this label may fit him better than even he would care to admit. Welcome, TRO. In this pub, even your acronym is an interesting one.

Whenever people start to debate about the proper role of Scripture or Liturgy, I tend to think of Jesus responding to His legalistic critics who questioned Him for allowing His disciples to eat wheat from a field through which they walked on the Sabbath. “Man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for man.”

This does not mean for us (and did not mean for Jesus) that people are the supreme authority over all, and did not negate the basic principles of Sabbath-keeping. Since Jesus was speaking, we can be sure that He was being consistent with the Law, while pointing us to the correct way of understanding it.

It’s how I feel when I hear stories like the popular one about the Orthodox priest who was greeted one morning by a completely empty church. He continued on with the Divine Liturgy as if he had a full house, and is praised for it. I don’t fault his choice, and understand the underlying point that the Divine Liturgy is God-oriented and not man-oriented. And yet I still think that man was not made for the liturgy, but the liturgy was made for man.

Man was not made for the Scripture, but Scripture was made for man.

Does this mean that liturgy or Scripture is unimportant? God forbid! Does this mean that people have ultimate authority over liturgy or Scripture and do with them as they will? No, of course not. Should either be twisted to suit human sensibilities? Never.

But it means that we should not be using either as a weapon, or a set of legalistic rules with which to attack people or point out their failures. The whole point of Christianity is not to reach the end of time with a perfect canon of Scripture or a universal liturgy, but to reach the end of time with a church, the body of Christ, made up of people who recognize Jesus Christ as Lord.

Inasmuch as liturgy or Scripture points us to Christ, which I believe both do, then we are using each correctly. When either starts to point to some other goal, we’ve screwed up. When man serves liturgy or Scripture instead of the other way around, I think we’ve blown it.

(I’m cross posting this here and at my blog)

Well, now it’s my turn to do a “confessional blogpost”. More »« Less

I don’t grok how the ‘church’ can be viewed as being a separate entity from the ‘people’. They are the same. God’s people are ‘the church’ and yes, those people are to be informed and shaped by the Word of God, which we all know is simply another name for Jesus.

If the ‘church’ and ‘God’s people’ are dichotomized, or if ‘Jesus’ and ‘God’s Word’ are dichtomized; the inter-relational intimacy between all of the above is divorced from the reality, which is that we (the people) are the Body of Christ (God’s Word).

The church is not to be shaped by the people in it. It is to formed and informed by the Word of God.

Without people, there is no church. There was a church before there was a bible. The church can both be shaped by the people in it and informed by the Bible.

Michael: Can you send me the keys to the advent blog?

The best part about Christmas? The Christmas Story (bible)
The second best part about Christmas? A Christmas Story (movie)

The reply to that lurker’s post on Barth floored me…

Either you don’t understand the Reformation or I don’t understand the Reformation—and I understand the Reformation. The church is not to be shaped by the people in it. It is to formed and informed by the Word of God.

(I)f (XYZ) has such a stellar view of the Bible, why don’t they come out clearly and unequivocally in favor of inerrancy and infallibility?

This link has a very Christmas looking pub photo, one which is located in Bloomington. It’s a favorite of mine: the Irish Lion. You can buy beer by the yard! Anyway, I don’t know if it can be (or is desired to be) put up for the logo at Christmastide, but it’s a suggestion.

Hi everyone! Allow me to introduce myself. I’m a new fellow here at the BHT. My name is “The Relentless Optimist.”

Michael has graciously invited me into the bar to see what we can do to improve the surly and, to be quite candid, negative atmosphere in this pub. Pubs should be bright and cheerful, but I’m afraid you fellows have let things become a bit sullen.

Always remember: there’s a sunny side to everything, and when you’re feeling the heat from being cooked….just remember that someone is going to get a good meal!

I’ll be checking in as often as needed to keep everyone looking up. We need to be known for being cheerful, positive and having bright smiling faces.

I’ve got a little song I enjoy singing. I think many of you know it, and could sing along with me. Let’s give it a try, shall we? Everyone on cue….

Wyman: I think one of the greatest and most important conversations we can have right now is about the conservative evangelical fear of letting the Bible be what it is.

I remember my first day in Dr. Tyson’s OT Theology class at Houghton College. He asked us a couple of really difficult questions about the Bible, pointing to specific texts, that offended much of our modernistic thinking about inerrancy/contradictions, etc. As we sat in kind of stunned silence, he explained to us that he wasn’t interested in forcing the Bible into any mold; he wanted us to hear and receive the Bible as it is, not as we might want it to be.

I really believe this is one of the key conversations. We (and I deliberately include myself in that “we”) have become like the Pharisees, searching the Scriptures because we think that in our doctrinal formulations, we have life. But we don’t see them as the means for coming to living Person of Jesus Christ.

Funny stuff there Travis. I’d never heard of St. Anne’s pub.

I once preached through Galatians and made note of Paul’s rather humorous desire for the Judaizers to “mutilate themselves.” I THOUGHT the point was pretty obvious to anybody reading Galatians. Anyway, a guy in my church took great offense and told me that I shouldn’t have made that point about the play on words with circumcision. I told him that I was just preaching the Bible. He brought up the issue the next week too. I am amazed at how frightened we are of the Bible.

Speakin’ of cussin’ – Anybody here a subscriber to St. Anne’s Pub? Go here and listen to Track #8: Serrated Edge Study Bible. (The whole issue is worth your time, really).

leifrigney, it’s ok to pummel them just so long as you don’t swear at them while you’re doing it.

We got back in town last night to discover that my wife’s car window had been smashed and her CD player and dozens of CDs stolen. Wonderful. From now on, all valuables shall be removed from the cars, and the doors left unlocked.

Is it wrong to want to pummel someone you’ve never met? I realize the Christian response is to pray for the perpetrator and share the gospel with him if I ever meet him. One more reason I fall short of a good Christian, I guess.

I find that I’m kind of inconsistent on swearing. There is swearing that seems to me to be unnecessary and then there’s swearing that seems to me to be almost excusable. So I’ll just jump on in and throw down a couple of examples:

1. Stanley Hauerwas swearing. It’s pure shock-value and schtick. I don’t like it. Case in point, Hauerwas has said “I’m A Pacifist Because I’m A Violent Son-of-a-b—ch.” Or I heard him lecture once and he said, “Whenever I hear a Methodist preacher begin a story with, ‘The other day my 5 year old looked at me and said…’, I know I’m fixing to hear bulls—t.” I don’t know, there’s nothing particularly necessary about this. And now I think that cat does it to live up to a reputation, which is no reason to swear.

2. Tony Compolo swearing. You know, the infamous: “There are a billion people starving in the world today and most of you don’t give a s—t. And furthermore, some of you more upset that I just said s—t than you are about the fact that there are a billion people in the world starving to death.” The jury’s out on this one, in my mind. It makes a point and it seems to serve the purpose of shocking towards a greater end – i.e., helping us look at our priorities, but still…

3. Martin Luther swearing. This is pretty much always cool because, you know, he’s Martin Luther.

4. C.S. Lewis swearing. There are only a few examples, but the funniest is when he uses the word “damnable” at the beginning of Mere Christianity and then has to put in a footnote due to an objection launched by some person who took offense to the word. I’ve always thought that objection was a rare capitulation on Lewis’ part to the puritanism he hated, but, then again, Mere Christianity was delivered as a radio address, so maybe that changes things.

5. Bono swearing. This kind of swearing is absurd, but probably unavoidable since it’s part of his own upbringing. But I do think that Bono drops the F-bomb primarily to show that he’s still cool. And that’s no reason to swear.

So, there you have it. The Christian guide to swearing. As a rule, don’t swear. As the cowboy said to The Dude on “The Big Lebowski”: “Dude, do you have to use so much profanity?”

I don’t remember any swearing when I read To End All Wars, I heartily recommend the book it was the most ‘real’ depiction of ‘revival’ that I’ve ever heard.

I’ve not yet seen the movie, it will be one that Laurie would want me to ‘protect her from’ so I’ll need to see it alone. I agree that soldier swear a lot and that movies are different from books, but I’m not sure how it would add much to the story.

Santa’s email addy is krunge AT gmail.com.

Five days left to sign up!

What follows is a self-depreciating attempt to gain empathy:

We had sort of a sucky storm blow through, it actually warmed from about 28 to 34 from mid-afternoon through the evening. What this means is major ice. We went to Super Wal-Mart for our monthly grocery shopping (about 40 miles away), and then to another town to drop off some photographs for an exhibit.

Driving was a bit hectic, but no big deal. It was the walking that was dangerous, in fact it was downright comedic. When I slid out of my truck at Wally World my feet hit the ground and kept on sliding. My butt hit the threshold of the door, the truck’s running board and finally the hard, cold ground.

After shopping we dropped our photos off at East Otter Tail County Museum, a cool Episcopal church built in the 1870’s, Laurie stepped off the grass at the side of the street onto the sidewalk, she went down right on her back and bottom, almost hitting her head. (Some disabled individuals who are prone to falling wear bicycle helmets, we may need to consider a similar strategy.)

We (carefully!) moved the photos and were invited for a personal tour of the museum, Laurie and the curator went inside and I said I’d follow after closing up the back of the truck. They locked the door after they went in and didn’t hear my knocking so I started to go around the side of the church to knock on a side window thinking they’d hear me better. I started to step off the side of the step and there I went again, my butt hitting the top step, second step and ground; flailing my arms wildly the whole time.

It’s very frustrating to have such a basic, everyday function like walking become so compromised.

We drove home, unloaded our groceries and sat painfully on the couch and watched a stupid movie.

This morning I ache.

If you are going to participate in the BHT Santa, you must email Kent. Do it today!

Kent: Could you put your email on the blog please?

My Alouettes lost in the Grey Cup. It was a great game, though. And this was the first time my son and I watched a whole game together (with a bunch of guys from the church). Great fun!

Josh wrote, “Any authentic war movies should have tons of swearing. If you’re wondering why, try hanging out with some soldiers at a bar sometime. I mean, there’s a reason why we the metaphor “to cuss like a sailor” has made it into our popular vocabulary.”

I would agree with this—as long as the swearing isn’t gratuitous. Most of the problems I have with Hollywood is the gratuitous nature of language, sex, violence, etc.

A superb Christmas letter reprinted by Tom Ascol.

Josh writes Advent thoughts:

“Today we put aside our speculating, arguing, and rational ascents into the abyss of divinity to begin the celebration of the advent of our Lord. Here, at the manger, there is no room for carefully crafted propositional frameworks from which all truth is to be derived. Here does God judge all our attempts to decide what he must be or do. Just when we think we have finally plugged that last logical hole, ironed out that last philosophical wrinkle, and put the last item on that list of attributes, it all comes crashing down as we remember that this squalling infant that can’t even control its own bowels is the One who created the universe and from whose hand alone salvation is to be found. Here God steps down from the heavens and demonstrates that he is neither like god of the philosophers nor the pagans, none of whom have space for “and was made man” in their dialectic speculation or poetry. Nor is he the safe god of moralistic deism, spiritual-but-not-religious agnosticism, or the tool of anyone’s political agenda. He’s the baby in the manger, assuming a human nature for our life and salvation.”

Do some more of that.

Tod Bolsinger has a wonder Beuchner quote on Advent.

David Wright says he needs a better look at Barth.

A BHT Lurker with a good post on rethinking Barth on scripture.

The Advent Blog is going great. Please stop by and read, or contribute.

Story: Today’s preaching- 9, 11 and 7- took place with a very distracted mind. But, in a way, I really needed to get up there and remember who I am and what I do. I’m a flawed person, and learning to admit that is what it takes for me to come to Christ. About my only prayer before going to the pulpit is that my sins will not prevent me from being a communicator, and that God will own my efforts for His glory. So, off I went today, a first-sunday in Advent sermon in my Bible and carrying a hope that I would be able to stay mentally focused.

It was a good day in the pulpit. There are little things I go by- the silence of the students, the eye contact of the adults, Bible pages turning, things people say afterward, WHO says something. It was apparently a good day. I felt good.

So, I return to preach to the students and a decent crowd of adults tonight, and I am doing Matthew 1. The geneology. I have some ideas and they worked. My boss was there, and he is the silent type. Almost never says anything to anyone about their work. I have several students talking to me about Anne Rice (whom I used in an illustration) and I see the boss. I immediately assume one of two things: 1) he’s upset or displeased with me or 2) he needs me to do something unscheduled, like travel or write.

He grabbed my hand, and in three words paid me the best compliment I’ve gotten in 14 years.

God knows what would buoy me in the rough seas. It was the smallest thing, but it meant more than I could have expressed. It told me I was OK. That, human that I am, I am where God wants me. I am glad the boss was paying attention to me or the Spirit or whatever moved him to encourage me. It goes in the file of “Little moments that make the bad moments worth it.”

Oh…and later, someone gave me a whole Barbecued pork roast and two tubs of turkey. That works too!

Pray for Clay. He has a mild case of the chicken pox, and we are going to make some changes in his school schedule tomorrow that I hope will make all of our lives a bit easier. Right now, in his hoodie he looks like the emperor in Star Wars.

Speaking of Clay- I wrote that darned essay, primarily as an apology to my son. In 2001, I wasn’t a good dad at all. I wasn’t a good person. It took me a while to see that he knew that. Though we have a great relationship, I needed to own up to some of what my errors had done to him. He sat in the kitchen and read it, and he received it. That “human context” is important in my life, especially when I am passionately repenting in my imperfect way. I see what “dad failure” does to boys every day. I was determined not to let the moment go by and I’m glad I didn’t.

Anyone relate?

Anybody else pumped about the new Nietzsche movie coming out?!

Thank you Michael and Jim for the prayers and book recommendations. I am going to use them.

leif rigney’s essay on “cussin’.”

I’m trying to figure out why I like this picture.

It seems to belong here in the bar. We need someone optimistic in here, and this looks like the guy. Got a name handy?

Yeah, I have a difficult time, too, when movies use any words from that list of words the Bible forbids us to use…

...oh, wait…

Challies reviews “To End All Wars.” Two interesting quotes:

It would be a mistake, however, to say that this is a “Christian film,” whatever that might mean…

As for the swearing, I don’t know how to reconcile that with my Christian worldview. Judging by the caliber of Christian by whom this movie was recommended to me, it is not an issue even conservative, Reformed Christians feel strongly about. Yet I have difficulty recommending it on the basis of the language.

My mother went to church with us this morning. It takes a lot to get a blind, 82 year old woman to church. We were starting Advent, Hanging the Green and having a potluck. We had an unusually good crowd today, and mom got to be a bit of a celebrity. I was happy with the sermon and grateful for all the coordination that went into the service, almost all orchestrated by Denise. (My mind has not been focused on preaching, as you can imagine, and that’s not a good thing when you must come to the pulpit 5x this week.)

The simplicity of getting mom through the day at church, lunch and then home are very grounding experiences. The simplicity of my mom’s needs are very good for me. She hadn’t heard me preach- in person- in many years, so that was a treat as well.

I’m preparing to speak at evening service in just a moment. I want to rename that service “Vespers” and make it shorter, but that could be complicated.

Bill’s story of the house burning down because of the Turkey fryer accident amazes me, but I know it happens all the time. How many times does the same accident have to happen before people get the basics of accidents that repeat over and over?

I’m very thankful that our church has a printed liturgy each week. It was our week to work the nursery, so we missed the service. But I’m able to grab the liturgy on the way out, and I can read everything that our church said and sang together that day. It’s no substitue to being present of course, but it’s nice to at least be able to read the words of preparation, corporate confession of sin, the apostle’s creed, etc.

Give me “formal, dead ritual” (as I’ve heard it called many times) the rest of my life.

I got the most recent issue a while back, but was waiting for a contemplative time to report in. The first day of the Advent season seems to be a great time for contemplating the basis for our hope, and so here it is. More »« Less

Chris Rice has a couple of new Christmas songs available on iTunes, and a thoughtful blog.

my own movement, called the “Submerging Church”. We’re going to reach out to all the submariners in the world. Anyone who believes that he is completely right about everything will be shot out the torpedo tube.

The Wine Cellar: Dangit, I keep missing this. I swear some of this stuff posted at 8:30 doesn’t show up until 9:30.

Prayers for my brother in law’s in-laws. Turkey fryer exploded, burn their house down. Lost everything. No one hurt.

Justin Baeder is well worth adding to your blogroll.

First Sunday in Advent. Hanging of the Green. Potluck. Other than the fact I have to preach/teach 4x, it’s awesome.

Tommy sent me an email yesterday that entirely cured my blues. I must confess to the pure joy of being told by a real-life scholar that I am right. :-p

Just to let everyone know:

1. I’m not “emergent,” nor do I like postmodernism. But then I don’t dislike it either because I don’t know what it is.
2. I qualify to be the resident TR around here (iMonk sez so). Can I get a little pointy hat or something?
3. But then again, I’m having my doubts about Calvin’s view of predestination (partly because I think he misunderstands Anselm in rejecting Anselm’s distinction between God’s active and permissive willing).
4. I still love Al Plantinga.
5. Being TR doesn’t mean being not-so-kind.
6. I’m not even sure what Barth is getting at.
7. Jim is always wrong (JN (JN)).

Somebody said recently that there no longer were any members of the BHT that are attending an “emergent” church. I just thought I’d point out that although PCNP doesn’t label itself as “emergent,” in my view we actually fit the definition that Justin Baeder came up with for an emergent church.

Anne: we’ll be praying with you. I would add Traveling Mercies by Anne Lamott to the list Michael wrote, and also maybe Blue Like Jazz, especially if your sister is someone who has had exposure to Christianity but now is ‘disaffected’. I’d also recommend these by Steve Brown: When Your Rope Breaks, When Being Good Isn’t Good Enough , and Approaching God : How to Pray, all of which should be helpful.

I know someone has no idea what Advent is. Try this. Excellent intro.

John H has a great Luther quote. Put it in front of you this month.

Artists: I really wish we had a picture of the interior of a pub, decorated for Christmas. Bart had one long long ago, but I would love to have one to possibly have someone do a special masthead.

Clay senior picture,
originally uploaded by iMonk.

This, btw, is the stuff that matters. Could anyone agree with us on that?

Noel & Ryan engagement,
originally uploaded by iMonk.

Here’s Noel and Ryan’s engagement photo. She’s gorgeous, and he has that look that all of us older men remember so well….What could you call it?

Jim has decided to be a blogger again. I welcome him. I don’t always agree, but when he works at it, he’s a heckuva good writer.

He’s writing on his view of scripture. Things kick off with “It’s ____ Magic!” and continue with “The Fight You Can Only Lose,” which has a terrific bit observation on Barth.

My understanding of the so-called “Barthian” or neo-orthodox perspective on the Bible is that scripture “becomes” the word of God when we read it, and we have some sort of “encounter” with God. How is that, in any substantive way, any different from what what I constantly hear from Christian teachers, namely, that the unregenerate man cannot read the bible and understand it, because they lack the mediating Holy Spirit? Barth says it “becomes the word of God” only when it has an effect; “orthodox” theology says it always is the word of God, but it can’t be understood, and thus has no effect. Who cares? The unregenerate person is still on their way to hell, whether God is Barthian or Reformed.

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Our BHT Community Advent Blog is off to a great start. Link it and let others know.

Annie: Waddle on. Pregnant is its own kind of beautiful.

Brennan Manning, Ragamuffin Gospel.
Merton, Seven Storey Mountain.
Winner, Girl Meets God

Emerging Chruch stuff: Andrew Jones updates his big post on “What is the Emerging Church?”

With several rats boiling in the pot, Kirby decided to become an artist, and immediately smacked his sister in the head with a sock monkey.

Over 32,681 discernable dialects in use!
Horseradish recipe, grated nutmeg and daylight savings time.
International decision reached on stance and headgear. Bits of stuff so small you wouldn’t believe it!
Rearrangement of atomic elements makes silk purse of sow’s ear, which leaves the sow a little bit confused but soon she learns to enjoy fame, fortune, and endorsement contracts.

Terry – A belated welcome! Glad to have you here.

Weeks of prelabor has me irritable, cranky, exhausted and with little energy to blog and discuss, but I am still reading. I cannot rightly express how much I appreciate and enjoy this blog. The mental stimulation and tavern community here provides me reprieve from the rest of my very uncomfortable, rather mindless day.

Here, let me waddle around and offer a drink to each of you on me.

My sister is facing 15 days in jail starting next week and she is scared to death. Jail does indeed sound like hell, especially for a 95 pound, strung out 22 year old recovering meth adict who has plenty of phobias and is very mentally and emotionally unstable.

I have learned more about the Gospel in being her sister the last year than I have the rest of my life. She doesn’t deserve mercy, yet that has been the cry of my heart for her. I am no better than she is. Factors outside of my control have given me more health and life, but not because I deserve it more. She is in misery that she deserves, and yet I am still overwhelmed with compassion. May God heal her in His mercy.

My question for the bar – she is not allowed to take anything into jail, not even underwear, but I can send her books from amazon. Any book suggestions from those who have more experience in such situations?

Jim: Dude…I am laughing for 5 minutes. Soooooo needed that one.

Josh: for what it’s worth, I second Ryan’s recommendation of Mark Helprin, and want to throw in A Winter’s Tale, which was my introduction to him. Memoirs is a delight, one of the few fiction books I’ve read this year more than once.

We still can’t argue about the Real Presence, though, and from the looks of things, there isn’t much we can argue about without having .000000001% of the Internet very angry with us, so let’s just reduce ourselves to babbling incoherently at each other: I’ll start:

“Nocturnal chicken salad did manage to fulfill Henry’s plans to rebuild the Planet of the Apes. It later exploded in Derrik’s left eyebrow.”

Tommy: You threaten me with hell? Don’t make me laugh, man. I live in New Jersey. I get out of eternal damnation just for that.

Scott McKnight’s post on “authority” is stirring up quite a bit of discussion.

“All who are baptized into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, recognizing the Trinity of Persons in the Godhead, the incarnation of the Son and his priestly sacrifice, whether they be Greeks, or Arminians, or Romanists, or Lutherans, or Calvinists, or the simple souls who do not know what to call themselves, are our brethren.”
—A.A. Hodge, Evangelical Theology, page 338.

Is “emerging” like coming out of the closet?

Good. Can you feed me now?

OK. Time to get my soul back. No more here or elsewhere on the Great Thanksgiving Row.

Advent is the cure I need. That and Andrew Peterson’s Christmas CD. If I listen to this a couple of times, I may get this phlegm out of my heart.

Brad at Broken Messenger, whose theology is more in line with my critics, has a good post. Lots of good work worth reading.

One major correction though: I am not emerging. The BHT is not emerging. We are being labelled emerging because I have asked for clarifications on statements made about the EC, and we/I have defended some EC insights. We are actually quite ignorant on most things EC. (The only guy here who attended an EC church just left the BHT.)

Adrian Warnock calls for a cease-fire. More »« Less

Josh: