The block is pretty dead…very few responses so far. So far, we’ve explicitly got:

• Me


• Jason Blair


• Blue Raja


• Phillip Winn


• JS Bangs


• Mark Whittinghill


• Sharon Waters


• Ochuck


• Sonia?


• Maybe Joel? Seriously, he should.

Seriously, people, if you want to participate in my little “write something defending something you don’t agree with” experiment, say something soon!

I don’t mind moderating this, but I need a list of who is participating.

Can someone explain to me why I agree with the gist of Piper’s point in the essay Michael linked to last week, but really don’t like the way he made his point? It isn’t just that he appeared to dissemble in order to criticize the writer in CT. There are a couple of layers to my negative reaction and I was wondering if my experience was unique in the bar and if anyone cares to discuss it.

Well, it’s been a day, and I’ve heard no objections to my suggestion. That being said, how about Michael starts us off by picking a person and a topic? If he doesn’t want to play, someone else should. I don’t want to start it off because I don’t want it to seem like I just wanted to pick on anyone by making him defend a pet topic of mine. :-) So here are the rules:

1. You can only pick someone who hasn’t gone yet. If the person doesn’t want to play, pick someone else.


2. Blue Raja wants to play, so you can pick him.


3. Make sure to pick a topic the person actually disagrees with, i.e. something that to him is in the “black” area, not “gray.”


4. If no one knows what you think is completely wrong-headed, and you want to play, give us a couple issues.


5. Pirate believes in YEC with the fervency of a thousand suns. He views Ken Ham as the Martin Luther, nay, the Athanasius of our day. He also believes equally fervently he would lose his salvation if he defended another view, even in jest (Let the reader understand). If anyone has a similar predicament, say so.


6. Do your best to defend your topic! That said, no whining if you feel someone else inadequately represented or defended their topic.

Pirate: I’d be in for writing a thesis defending a position with which I disagree. Heck, I think that’s how I’ve become more liberal since 9/11—sticking up for the one Democrat surrounded by Republicans at my church!

Shiny Happy New Beginnings for the BHT?

Tom: I really hoped you were kidding, but a few hours have passed, so I’m guessing not. The delay means I’ll probably avoid a pile-on, but I’m afraid I can’t really respond without some negativity. Sorry.

Your analogy is really poor on every level I can imagine. The Apostle’s Creed is radically different from your example of “Lincoln’s Creed” in nearly every way. The Creed covers the most important points of Jesus’ life, while your example covers—maybe—one of Lincoln’s. A more suitable comparison—if such a comparison were required for some strange reason—would be:

I believe in Abraham Lincoln, savior* of the United States. He was elected President, waged a war, preserved the union, and ended slavery in the country. He was assassinated by a slavery-loving moron.

Per your complaint about the Apostle’s Creed, I left out the popular stories about his many failed attempts to run for office, the Lincoln-Douglas debates, and most of his policies unrelated to the “civil war.” And yet still it encompasses most of what people know about Lincoln, which is all one can really do in a few sentences.

The Apostle’s Creed is quite a bit more complex, since it covers the uniqueness of Jesus’ birth, as well as His post-resurrection glory and future return—which obviously Lincoln didn’t have. It also covers other things important in Christianity that aren’t specifically about the human life of Jesus—like the other two members of the Trinity and our hopes of current/past forgiveness and future resurrection.

Look, I completely understand why someone would be cautious about ascribing too much “authority” or importance to a non-Biblical source. There are certainly people who—and perhaps a tendency in all of us to—grab ahold of something “easier” than the real Jesus, who seems to offend everybody somehow. However, I think you’re picking the wrong fight with the wrong crowd over the wrong example, and doing a poor job of it to boot.

Jesus is the reason we’re all brothers and sisters here, and He’s the reason we are all so passionate about this topic. He’s the reason for it all, and any theological statements that are too loosely connected to “theo” are awful. But the Apostle’s Creed is about Theo; it is intended to be a simple statement of the importance of Christ, His unique birth, His atoning death, His resurrection, His glory, His future return, and the benefits thereof (forgiveness, our resurrection). Is it complete? We’ve got a 66-volume history of the world that still isn’t really complete, so obviously a few-sentence Creed is going to be even less complete.

Rejecting a creed because it isn’t complete is a little silly, though. Reject it because it emphasizes unimportant things, or because it contains untruth, or for some other reason. Otherwise you end up facing questions about why you don’t reject the New Testament because we’re missing two letters to the Corinthians, for example. It’s still the best record we have, and since it’s about Jesus, that’s what makes it important.

I hope that makes sense. I think you ought to pick on people who focus on doctrine to the exclusion of Christ, not those of us who emphasize doctrine that focuses on Christ.

P.S. I like the African creed, too. I’ve bookmarked it.

• Even those with an opposing view can acknowledge that this is orthodoxy!

I’ve been posting on education a bit at IM, and this post showed up in my trackbacks. I like it, and I like the idea of a dialog.

During soli deo tonight, I had a bit of a revelation. A future speaker had emailed me today to ask if it would be OK to show an extended film clip/music video from “The Passion of the Christ.” It occurred to me as I was preparing the communion meditation that most of the people who are deeply involved with this movie in a “sacramental” way probably rarely ever hear the words “This is my body….This is my blood” uttered in the context of the Lord’s Supper in worship anywhere. The tangibility and presence of the Lord’s Supper brings us to the broken body and shed blood in a way a movie cannot. The genius of the Lord’s Supper is that it takes us, in simplicity and authenticity, to the place of “it is accomplished” over and over.

“The Passion” as an evangelical replacement for frequent communion. Interesting idea. What do you think?

Someone called the new place “Clive Barker’s Boar’s Head Tavern.”

I’m looking forward to two days away at Campbellsville’s University’s Worship and Arts Conference, where Michael Card is going to be teaching on Lament. I hope to be home by early afternoon Friday, so that Denise and I (and hopefully some soli deo friends) can go to an interdenominational service at St. William’s RCC for Stations, preceded by fried fish.

My students are laughing at Jesus Christ Superstar. That medium of rock opera always strikes them oddly, but they get used to it.

We are having a talent show, and lots of Asians are entering. I have to review all their lyrics, and it’s…...interesting. The themes of the Asian songs are very much about emotional suffering, personal oppression, frustration and social cruelty. Not at all like the American songs that are all about….sex, generally. Fascinating window.

Bill and I have been marvelling at how Fide-o has now become one of our frequent stops. Jason has put together an excellent introduction to four views of the book of Revelation. Very good material if you aren’t familiar with this and good to pass on to those you teach.

Jason lines up on the “Who is reformed?” bit by saying Reformed = five solas, TULIP and Covenant Theology. I miss by one letter.

Heikkinen has the pic of the day.

I’ve had one request for a permanent Farah poster on the blog. In deference to the wives, I’ve said no thanks. Now….who has the old one? Poster I mean. Not wife.

Some of you have older versions of Firefox and your java, Flash and shockwave are way out of date. This will keep you from using/seeing extended comments. So update the browser to 2.0 and get current with your plug-ins. A good test is whether all the toys at MLB.com work for you.

Remember where I asked you to put SOMETHING in a URL by your name? I was serious. Please. All those vacant spots look bad.

And if you are a current BHTer without a BIO, please read a few, write one and send it to me so we can make an attempt at updating that page.

The former sidebar resources (lectionaries, etc.) are now under the “Resources” tab.

You’re right, Tom.  The Creed would make a terrible dissertation.  I can’t imagine anyone getting a doctorate by submitting the Creed.

Abraham Lincoln was born to Thomas Lincoln and Nancy Hanks. He was shot in the head by John Wilkes Booth, lay in a coma for nine hours, and died.

And that, my friend, would get you a D- at best, and probably an F.

but it mentions nothing that happens between “born of the Virgin Mary” and “suffered under Pontius Pilate.”

So what? Anyone who has learned the Creed as part of their catechesis has learned the life of Christ as it is recorded in the Gospels, and when they confess the Creed, the life of Christ is not only brought to mind, but interpreted. What about Jesus’ humanity is ignored in the words “suffered under Pontius Pilate?” When the impassibility of God is a basic presupposition of your world, this is as clear a confession of Christ’s humanity in four words as you will ever find. Also, the “twelve guys” are specifically referred to in the article “one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.”

Face it. The Apostle’s Creed totally ignored Jesus’ earthly ministry

Face it. The meaning of language goes beyond just the dictionary and the grammar manual. In your world, “Caesar crossed the Rubicon” is nothing more than a statement that some Italian guy splashed across a river.

>The Apostle’s Creed… is inadequate at best.

Finally….the BHT post Phil keeps talking about.

Josh-Well, sure, Jesus’ earthly ministry is “between” born of the Virgin Mary and was crucified, but it mentions nothing that happens between “born of the Virgin Mary” and “suffered under Pontius Pilate.” No healings, no teachings, no wandering around with 12 disciples, nothing. Sure, it happened “between” but if nothing’s mentioned, how can you say it “contains” it. Now, the descent into hell, oh yeah, that’s big stuff there. Kenneth Copeland likes that part.

Face it. The Apostle’s Creed totally ignored Jesus’ earthly ministry and therefore is inadequate at best. It practically (not totally) ignores Jesus’ humanity while overplaying Jesus’ divinity. And yes, both are important—equally.

Alex? Alex who? Well [whoever you are], I don’t see how Harris is offering much more than bare assertion peppered with anecdotes. Counter-evidence to his claim that moderates shield “maniacs” from criticism is easily found. One could start with Greg at The Parish that Tom linked to (he has updated his initial post with a further explanation). Harris’ imagery of concentric rings enables him to convey a picture of moderates forming an outer protective shell for what lies deeper within the fortress. Of course, it could be that this imagery was chosen because it agrees with the conclusions Harris already believes. But that’s just atheist presuppositional apologetics :-) I don’t think his assertions hold much weight at all. More »« Less

“Very cool. Not that my opinion counts for much, but I like it.

When I was in high school I went to a technical school in the middle of one of the oldest sections in town where the original industries were located. The bar on the corner was a working class joint for guys getting off their shift to get a cold one. It was open in the morning when I went to school, it was open when I left in the afternoon, it was open when I came and went from school basketball games. It was also the place to stand while waiting for the bus if the bartender hadn’t had trouble with the cops for letting us underaged, non-shaving types inside the door. More »« Less

Pirate, I’d do it. The results would be hilarious.

A while ago, Scott Adams posted the results from a particularly strange study on his blog:

For example, researchers asked people to write essays in support of a random point of view they did not hold. Months later, when surveyed, the majority held the opinion they wrote about, regardless of the topic. Once a person commits an opinion to writing – even an opinion he does not hold – it soon becomes his actual opinion. Not every time, but MOST of the time.

So I’m really curious…anyone interested in trying that here?  Write a defense of a theological (or political) issue you don’t agree with, and see if you change your own mind.  To make it even more fun, instead of picking your own issue, what if we took turns, and chose the next person to write and what issue the person will defend?  I’d be fascinated to see if anyone’s mind actually changes, or if we’re all sure enough about what we think.  Anyone want to try?

I am not the redhead. I’m the other one. But, she’ll come and host the karaoke for the bar unless you already have someone in mind for that.

Tom, sorry, when Lutherans say the “Creed,” we mean the Apostles’ Creed.  To recall the 2nd article to memory:

And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried.  He descended into hell.  On the third day he rose from again the dead.  He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty.  From thence he will come to judge the living and the dead.

Which part of Jesus’ earthly ministry didn’t happen between the words “born” and “ascended?”  Unless you’re a Mormon, there’s not a single part of Christ’s earthly ministry that is not contained here.  Of course it doesn’t describe in detail every event of his life; to insist on that is facile, and even the Gospels don’t do that.  But the whole of his earthly ministry is indeed confessed here.  There is nothing of his earthly ministry that we who confess the Creed do not confess here, because the whole of his ministry happened between “born” and “ascended,” and we even take pains to locate it in space and time (“under Pontius Pilate”), denying that Christ is just a mythological being.

Sheesh. I step out for a while and when I get back, the place looks like an emergent church.

I always knew those heretics would get to iMonk…Beer in church? Perish the thought. (JNx3)

I can’t find the Farrah poster.

As far as “To Write Love on Her Arms” is concerned, anything with Thrice’s Dustin Kensrue on the board of directors is fine by my book.

Anyone read Sam Harris’s God’s dupes?

Looks like a place where these guys would be welcome—If only there was a place out back to water the hawgs.

The New Look BHT—Love it, love it, love it!

Josh—I guess I should ask you, which Creed (capital C) are you talking about, since there are several? I must be missing the one that has “the entirety of Christ’s life in Article 2” unless, of course, you are talking about the African Creed, which I doubt that you are.

Sonia: The place looks fantastic! Lurker Kinnon, the banner is great, too! Thanks to you both. In your honor, I’ll be sure to raise a glass of:

• Guinness


• Harp


• Bass


• or whatever you prefer

Who am I kidding? I just wanted an excuse to use the new beer-mug bullets. :-)

If you have any kind of web page, URL, bio page, or favorite site, please list it so it appears as a link under your name.

If you haven’t written a bio for the bar’s bio page, please do so, and send it to me or Sonia. At some point we’ll update/edit that page.

Well, Sonia, good job on pulling all of this together. It sure is different… wow. That old BHT design has been here since I first joined the place four years ago. This’ll take a little getting used to. But it looks nice and makes the place feel classy. Well done.

I will now be able to sleep at night without dreaming about code. :)

Hope you folks like it – I enjoyed putting it together. There are a couple of new things added in here either to make things more interesting to look at or to make life a little easier:

• First off, the bullets. Dots and diamonds are boring.


• The little printer icon next to the comments link at the bottom of each post allows you to print the post without getting all of the other gibberish.


• There is now an admin bar that shows up across the top of the screen when you log in. You can now bypass the site admin link (followed by the dashboard) and get directly to where you want/need to go (write a post, edit a post, etc). While I understand it is a bit redundant, I left the admin links up in a couple of places for those who are creatures of habit and are naturally leery of anything new.


• The “Read More” button now just reads “More”. When you click on the link, the rest of the post opens up beneath the link instead of having to load up a separate page.


• The blogroll in the sidebar is now scrollable so it doesn’t take up quite as much space as it used to.

As there always is with a brand new model “anything”, bugs need to be worked out. One of the more obvious quirks is the Fellows’ link/email list. It was working fine on my systems at home but seems to be misbehaving now that it’s on the server. The proverbial ducks are refusing to get into a row. The links themselves are functioning – they just appear to be unruly. Feel free to either post your other comments/suggestions here or email them to me.

Just be aware that my focus is now shifting to a job hunt. Without going into too much detail here, I have until the end of June to find a new job (if you want some of the nuts and bolts of the story, it’s on my blog). Since it can take up to 2 months around here to get an interview, I’ve got to get cracking on this. I’ll be around to take care of little things here and there but I most likely will not be able to do any significant revamps until I know where my new paycheck will be coming from. I would appreciate your prayers.

A new posthumous Tolkien book.

Ahh, the cemetery and the fortunate pastor who cuts her administrative teeth on the rural church cemetery committee. I would praise God if my next church depended upon the local city caretakers for the disposal of our saintly bones. But, I’m happy for the careful grooming that I received from the small church historian, the matriarch in charge of the bank vault which housed the deeds and the CDs, and the other trustees of those lovely garden plots for the dead. I know more about those churches, their families, the motivating industry of the communities, and the direction that the communities are taking small business wise, all based on the trends of who’s dying and getting buried where. Subtle politics. I also learned about high church finance. The ministry budget (including pastor salary) might only $34K but they might be sitting on 75 or a 175K cash or CDs. Yep. Some of that money might actually be in a bank and not a mayonnaise jar in back of the chiffrobe.

What I will not miss is the grounds as centerpiece for ministry. This story from my friend who went back for a revival at a church she had served a few years ago: “Reverend Lisa, we’re just so proud of our little cemetery! See, how it’s grown!”

Hummm.

The NAE endorsed the Evangelicals for Human Rights statement. FWIW. [set jn to 11] I will state my views about this as dispassionately as I can. First, (...), not to mention (...). But then one must consider (...). So, (...). That’s what I think. [reset jn to stun]

Maybe it’s my monitor, but the low contrast between the dark gray background and the text is kind of hard on the eyes.

Phillip, if “To Write Love on Her Arms” is emergent nonsense, then we’re all doomed. What a great example of ministering to the Lord.

Tech and Design crew: Well done.

Design by Sonia.

Banner by Bill Kinnon. (Kickin’)

It’s your new place, with lots of cool new tweaks.

But the Farrah poster is still there :-)

Tom: I apologize for being part of what now seems like a pile-on earlier. That was not my intention. I think you raise interesting points and provide a needed perspective. Even though I disagree (slightly) with your reaction to some of the problems in the American church (and with Falwell), I share your disguntlement with what I see.

One a related note, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone in here write about To Write Love On Her Arms, and it seems relevant to us. Emergent nonsense to some, a manifestation of the love of Christ to others, it certainly appealed to me. While some part of my brain has questions about financial accountability and reproducability, I focus instead on the more immediate story, and I see Jesus.

Uh, warning: one F-word in the text. Apropos, as you’ll see.