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| “Or how much curious and loving attention was expended by the first man who looked hard enough at the insides of trees, the entrails of cats, the hind ends of horses and the juice of pine tree to realize he could turn them all into the first fiddle. No doubt his wife urged him to get up and do something useful. I am sure that he was a stalwart enough lover of things to pay no attention at all to her nagging; but how wonderful it would have been if he had known what we know now about his dawdling. He could have silenced her with the greatest riposte of all time: Don’t bother me; I am creating the possibility of the Bach unaccompanied sonatas” (Robert Farrar Capon, The Supper of the Lamb, p. 19 HT to Doug Wilson |
The Hitchens Hedges piece kind of reminds me of the old “Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus” article—there’s not REALLY a flesh-and-blood Santa Claus but we can use some cutesy language to dance around it and say that there is, at least symbolically. Hitchens kind of takes the old Tillichian liberalism (without “God is the ground of our being” language) to say, “Yes, Sam, there is a God, but not really.”
Joel: That Hedges piece you linked to is drivel. I’m surprised you recommend it (or at least seem to): methinks I detect some Hegel-inspired liberal triumphalism in Hedge’s “apologetic” for “faith” (for what his “faith” is, is nothing but sentiment).
What does this mean?
God is a human concept. God is the name we give to our belief that life has meaning, one that transcends the world’s chaos, randomness and cruelty…God is not an asserted existence but a process accomplishing itself. And God is inescapable. It is the life force that sustains, transforms and defines all existence.
This doesn’t sound anything like the Nicene Creed, or any of the Psalms. Can you imagine David writing a Hedges-esque Psalm? “The belief that life has meaning is my sheperd; I shall not want / it maketh me feel warm and fuzzy inside / it leadeth me beside the walls of liberal Utopia.”
God is a belief? That seems to be the wrong category of being entirely for anything worthy of the name “God.” But Hedges isn’t even consistent here: in one place, “God” refers to a belief, in another a concept, and in yet another a “life force” (hasn’t evolutionary biology dispensed with the élan vital anyway?). Gee, I’ve always thought “God” referred to a person…
This is another gem:
Faith allows us to trust, rather, in human compassion, even in a cruel and morally neutral universe. This is not faith in magic, not faith in church doctrine or church hierarchy, but faith in simple human kindness.
Hedges engages in something that I hate more than anything: he separates the message of Jesus from the person of Jesus. The instant you do that, you cease being Christian. Jesus’s message wasn’t merely an expression of mealy-mouthed liberal platitudes (in fact, it wasn’t the expression of mealy-mouthed liberal platitudes at all); His message was Himself. He is the Word of God, God’s message of hope to a broken humanity. Without Him, there is no hope. This Bultmannian, liberal Protestant trick has got to be put down once and for all.
Sorry for this furious fisking, but that Hedge piece is just plain bad. It figures, coming from a student of that arch-Unitarian, James Luther Adams.
Michael: My parser chokes on America the Beautiful, too, but perhaps you protest to much against God shed his grace on thee, And crown thy good with brotherhood. As I hear it, the phrase
1. Calls on God to impart grace to the country and its inhabitants
2. Recognizes that the country has some virtuous inhabitants, and
3. Asks God to grant a spirit of community to the virtuous inhabitants.
It’s not exactly the full Gospel, but it’s hard for me to think of why I shouldn’t pray for these.
Sharon, at the risk of being labled permissive, can I ask what the heck the big deal is? Get thee to a Home Depot (or Lowes) and visit the paint section. A can of stain-block spray primer has to be less than $5. It can’t possibly take more than 5 minutes to use up the whole can, and did he really use that much?
I’m of the opinion that school is highly over-rated, and that children are over-educated (and improperly educated at that.) I’d let him walk on the painting, but then again, I’d let him walk on the school day as well.
Chris Hedges (yes, that Chris Hedges) doesn’t believe in atheists like Sam Harris. Hedges and Harris debated this past Tuesday. An excellent religious response to Harris’ (et al) fundamentalistic atheism. (h/t Macht)
Thanks, Michael, for linking NT Wright’s Pentecost sermon. What I learned from the master of NT studies today:
”(I am reminded that in E. P. Sanders’ famous book, Paul and Palestinian Judaism, the index has an entry which says ‘Truth, ultimate’, with three page references, pages 30, 32 and 430; but when you turn to those pages you find that each one is blank. Sanders is both ironically declaring his epistemological humility and also cocking a snook at those interpreters who believe that we can ever know the ultimate truth.)”
Bold mine.
from World Wide Words:
[Q] From Mike Pringle: “Any idea on the origins of the phrase cock a snook. I can see the cock side of it, but why snook which is, I believe, a fish?”
[A] Ah. Wrong sort of snook. Possibly the wrong sort of cock, too, I could guess, though to investigate more deeply might sully the chaste reputation of this newsletter.
The truth is, we have no idea at all where this phrase comes from. The gesture of derision it encapsulates is that of putting one’s thumb to one’s nose and extending the fingers. Waggling them is optional but greatly improves the effectiveness of the insult. The gesture is widespread but names for it vary: cocking a snook is mainly the British name for what Americans, I think, sometimes describe as a five-fingered salute. Heaven knows what the notably blunt Australians call it.
Cock here is a verb with the sense of sticking something out stiffly in an attitude of defiance, as the cockerel’s neck, crest or tail is erect when he crows. So we have expressions like to cock the nose, to turn one’s nose up in contempt or indifference. A cocked hat is one whose brim has been turned up; a cocked gun is one whose hammer has been raised, ready for firing. And so on.
So far so good. But snook is not so easily explainable, since the word turns up only in this phrase. There’s an example known from 1791, but the phrase doesn’t become widely recorded until the last years of the nineteenth century. There is some suggestion that it is a variant form of snout, which would make sense.
Because snook isn’t known now, folk etymology often turns the phrase in cock a snoot, since snoot is known as a slang name for the nose. (It’s another variant of snout.)
I return you now to your regularly scheduled sermon.
Today at my church we had communion, in memory of Jesus, and it is Memorial Day, so we remembered those who have died to make us free. In the rite we DID THE EXACT SAME THING DIRECTED AT THE TWO OBJECTS, Jesus and the heroes.
It is a fortunate homiletic confluence, this union of a church holiday (Pentecost) and Memorial Day, since around the theme of “remembering” the sermon writes itself.
Because we know that when Jesus said “do this in memory of me” He meant “think about me fondly”. (jn. is it jn?)
Michael: Wayne County, WV, about a 5 minute drive from the soil of your Eastern KY. I grew up in that evangelical subculture you document so well at IM.
Sharon: We just met, but you asked …I’m convinced that the transition from childhood to adulthood is centered around experiencing the first law of the universe, which is that you reap what you sow, or someone else must.
So he simply makes it right, and nothing else. He not only pays for the primer, he goes and gets it, he applies the primer, he paints the wall, he cleans up, and only when the room is whole again is he done. You are actually indifferent, in a way: if he chooses to live his life chewing up perfectly good spring weekends so he can mark on walls, well, that doesn’t seem smart to you but…whatever, dude.
I suspect he’s smart and will do his own cost/benefit analysis somewhere in the middle of the second coat, and make a memo to self not to do that again. And that’s all you want.
You won’t get it with a sermon; he owes a liturgical debt.
No advice for that situation. You’re doing the right thing as far as I can tell. I would be livid, to say the least. Making him pay is a good beginning. I’ve prayed for you.
My kid is sick of moving. That’s one issue. My kid is a spoiled smartarse. That’s the issue at hand.
He wanted to skip one of the last days of school. His dad and I said no way. He throws a fit with a permanent marker. His justification? Because we were already prepared to paint his room since t was dingy. So, he thought it wouldn’t be a big deal. He didn’t think it was a destructive fit. Prose, pictures and (bad) poetry about how bad he’s got it since he has to move to another hick town. No profanity.
The reality is that the marker bleeds through and it will have to be primed. He’ll pay the money from mowing lawns. What else would you do?
And, about that particular song? NO. Jesus brings in the Kingdom—and I don’t believe it will look like that American utopia.
I’m not sure that I know the difference between nationalism and Patriotism. I know that I don’t want to get either one mixed up with my Christianity.
My church always celebrates “God and Country Sunday” the Sunday before Memorial Day weekend. It’s a huge deal complete with singing the military songs for every branch of service. They hand banners including a POW banner and salute the American flag, and uh, the Christian flag as well. Outside of the church there are dozens of crosses memorialized with the names of veterans. There are flags on the crosses. Confederate flags and American flags. At the God and Country service anyone who has been in military service gets up and says their name, branch of service, where and when they served.
I was appalled when I found out about this service. I also knew that there would little that I could do to stop this tradition. My only request was that it could be more God than Country. But, we still sang over hill, over dale, etc. Last Sunday was the second year to live through that. I know that it’s not all about me but it was tough.
No.
1) The song is addressed to America.
2) The prayers in the song are good, but somewhat based on questionable assumptions. (I’m all for praying that God would mend the flaws of a nation, but what does that mean? And what God are we addressing?)
3) The last verse I listed is completely utopian. We’ll build tearless, alabaster cities if we can get it all right.
QOTD: No. Why not? Because it’s a nationalistic hymn (albeit in the best sense of the word). In the public square: Yes; it’s one of our (if not the) best patriotic anthems.
But even if it were played in church, at least it’s not as belligerent and militaristic as Mine Eyes. America is certainly nationalistic, but not with reprehensible imagery such as a “fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel.”
then I got called on to pray….and decided to cost myself $10. Good cause.
Sounds like a nice service. Wait…y’all do candles in a Baptist church?
Michael, you suggested that I purchase iWork and I think it’s wonderful. I’ve been using Pages and I’m playing around with Keynote. Did you mention some time ago that you did a presentation on Keynote and saved it as a PDF and linked it for us to see? I could have dreamed that up but my dreams are usually better than that!
I would like to see what some examples of you have used this program—both slides and paper presentations if you have anything that is accessible.
MOD: Not me. I do just do pictures and text. KIS. Grab pics from flickr and transfer my outlines and scriptures. No pdf capabilities on there. As to candles, I’ve seen Baptists haul them out for numerous occasions.
Should this song ever be song in church? Why or why not? (Don’t give the whole speech. I want to know about THIS song.)
O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern, impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!
O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife.
Who more than self the country loved
And mercy more than life!
America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness
And every gain divine!
O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
We had something I’d never seen. The lighting of four candles in “memory” of various persons:
1) In memory of innocents aborted.
2) In memory of Jesus (A cross was near the candle.)
3) In memory of loved ones (A small white cross near the candle.)
4) In memory of veterans and casualties of war. (A flag near this candle, and the man who lit the candle saluted the flag.)
This was new and was, as these things go in rural SBC churches, actually fairly classy.
My friend Paul, the missionary music professor teaching piano for us, got two songs and an intro in on Pentecost, then I got called on to pray….and decided to cost myself $10.
It would have been a $150 morning if you’d come to my church. I didn’t mention Memorial Day one time, either.
$40 isn’t bad Michael, I was guessing lower.
Memorial Day in the mountains is something hard to describe.
Where we live now the local people are often really into praying for dead people and having big parties to remember the deceased at certain times. They are often curious about how we (Christians) pray and how we handle funerals and doing things for those who have died. This week the question came up and I really thought I should explain Memorial Day. I mean, it is incorporated into so many of the small churches I grew up in that many people somehow think of it as a “Christianly” thing to do. But, I abstained. I think maybe I did so, because it would have been really hard to explain to the casual observer how these practices differ from those of the local religion here.
I’ve been able to work Lebowski allusions into my sermons on at least two different occasions. One was, “Indeed, Dude, nihilism is exhausting” and the other was a scene that sums up my attitude towards some TR blogs.
Walter: Am I wrong!?
The Dude: No, Walter, you’re not wrong, you’re just an a**hole!
That’s good stuff right there. Teach it to your kids.
As for Pentecost, I confess there’s no mention of it in my sermon this morning. Just plain forgot it was today. We’re not into the calendar much ‘round these parts.
I’m going to donate $10 to Samaritan’s Purse for every time Pentecost, etc. is mentioned in church today.
Memorial Day in the mountains is something hard to describe. There are dozens of “Styrofoam Memorial Junk” stands all over town, and you buy this stuff and go to the cemetery after church and decorate graves.
Send ME- Michael- Your 1-2 paragraph Bios for the bio page.
This is your chance. So do it.
Tim: Welcome, and where in Appalachia do you hail from?
Shea: I don’t know about Walter, but I think “Nobody messes with the Jesus” has possibilities.
Let me impose a little profile on your patience: (can’t figure out how to put it in the bios.)
I grew up in Appalachia the son of a Baptist preacher. At age 16 at youth camp I was convicted of my sinfulness and from then I set out to be a disciple of our Lord. So I started reading, and quickly discovered that the Holy Ghost is stylistically adroit.
Merton, John of the Cross, Lewis, Barfield, Williams, Sayers, Ellul, David Hart, Bonhoeffer, Tillich, Eckhart, Desert Fathers, Cappadocians, Watchman Nee, Lossky, and so on.
I hope you got whiplash somewhere in that list because I sure did when I realized that the church was BIG.
I spent some years in a house church and on to full christian community. Eventually, in my late 30’s, I married a patient woman, became a Wesleyan, and produced a little boy who is now 8 and utter joy. I’m 50.
Theology? Yes. Whatever is in any of the creeds I affirm, even the ones I’ve never read. I believe in the “majestic tapestry” of Christendom, and I regard those as brethren (and sistern) who confess Jesus as Lord. When I find ways to be more theologically conservative I add them on, and then try to embrace just as liberally those who are not.
I try to be an Arminian, and I think there are no actual Calvinists in existence. :-)
Somewhere along the way I got an accounting degree, an MBA, and make my living as a health care administrator in Columbus, OH.
If won the lottery tonight, tomorrow I’d start spending the rest of my life writing poems.
Well, that’s enough. Thanks for having me in.
I only went to Bob’s link once, but I did get John Goodman. If you need a good Lebowski line, I nominate “I don’t bowl on the Shabbas.”
Those big brains can be useful.
It’s well worth keeping.
Also, I’d not read of Garry Wills book on Jesus, but this quote is interesting.
Click on Bob’s link and then answer me this question: Which Walter Sobchak line should be Willow Creek’s new masthead quote? If you need the screenplay for The Big Lebowski, here it is.
I vote for ”Donny…please.”
I really hope you’ll take me up on this challenge. I’ll ship a six pack of the best beer you can buy in C-U to the person who most makes me laugh.
EDIT: Am I taking crazy pills? I can’t make John Goodman come back. But I swear, sometimes when you go to their site (I’ve seen it twice) John Goodman comes out and pitches the product.
CT Cover Advertisement shocked me. Evan Help Us? “Family friendly movie” with Ark theme teams up with the folk from Willow Creek to “Change the World”, Here
And no, this is not larknews!
I’ve already Googled, so don’t send me there. Can someone tell me where I can find an account of A.W. Pink’s, uh, reclusion from the Church toward the end of his life?
MOD: I got it from Iain Murray’s Bio.
MJ: Great. There’s one bio I definitely don’t have. I wanted to use it for my sermon tomorrow.
Does that mean Tim Smith is a Methodist? We have all the Disciples of Christ we need :-)
Algore could probably learn a thing or two about clean desks from this guy:
Richard, those photographs are beautiful. What an inspiring place to live! Jason, thanks for the examples for how to use the monitors. It looks like with the right set up there’s just no limit to what can be done. All I need to do is to tell The Story clearly. It is a good one and that helps a lot. ;-]
Looking at Clay’s Virb page reminds me to encourage all of you to support Virb, a new social networking site without titillating ads and created by the good folks at flickr.
There are a lot of really good features at Virb. There’s also an Internet Monk group.
8 runs in the 10th inning??!? Where is the pride? Where is the dignity? Well, at least you’ve got a better record than…oh, never mind.
Sharon, I’ll have to speak from the perspective of one who uses eeevill PCs, but I’m sure the same thoughts apply…
The best use I’ve found for multiple monitors, especially if you’re using something like Powerpoint in a church setting, is to be able to view all your slides in one screen and have the live slide on the other. If you put a video splitter on the second screen, then you can have your second monitor in front of you for easy viewing while the same signal is sent to your projector.
This setup is also great if you’re running something like Media Shout.
In both cases, you can be making live edits to content in one monitor while your presentation is being viewed in the other.
Another advantage to multiple monitors is when you’re using design software like Photoshop or Dreamweaver. Your content is on one screen and your tool palettes are on the other.
If you’re just using basic office apps, you can have immediate work on one screen while email/calendar or extra browsers are on the other. Or, sermon notes open in the word processor with web sessions (or Bible software) in the other.
Once you go multi-monitor, you’ll get it, and it will be hard to go back. I’m running that way at work and it’s awesome. At home, I’ve switched to a wide screen single monitor. It’s ok, but I’d still like to have that second screen.
Sharon: I have a cartographer friend who uses three screens for his work and a photographer friend who uses multiple monitors for the purpose of very fine photo editing (check out some of the results here. He’s a superb artist. That’s my “neighbourhood” in most of the photographs).
PS. An anecdote about my friend Bill, the photographer. Apparently he set was setting up to take pictures from a deck and he was about to merely take pictures of the cat sitting on a post when he saw IT.
As for Mr. Gore, I thought my desk was a mess. Sheesh! Time to GTD, Al.
Michael, I understand where you’re coming from. The denom’s I list are there for completeness. I understand that where I’m at theologically today, I don’t know that the LCMS would want me, unless I were to make some serious changes of belief. Even I don’t know if I could go there for sure. I know John will try to convince me to follow that path. 8-)
Saint Patrick’s is indeed awesome from what I’ve seen online. They seem like the kind of place that would tolerate someone like me who’s been in a “low church” environment for the past decade plus.
Jason: Whatever squishyness I have would run aground on the rocks of refusing to commune with other professing, baptized Christians. I think AMiA would be happy to have you. Looks like Noel and Ryan will be helping with an AmiA plant in their area soon. You should talk to Guitar Priest about it. Peter Matthews is pastor of Saint Patrick’s, an AmiA plant in Lexington. Great guy and BHT reader.
Michael, let’s just say that a little emerging squishyness goes a looooong way toward freedom of denominational choices. I freely admit that it allows for some – how shall I put it – inconsistency. BUT – If, and this is a really big if, I would end up following an LCMS path, it would take a lot of convincing, and I’d probably still end up going the AMiA route. The one thing that makes me think about it is the Lutheran people I know personally. Mom and Dad are members of a Word Alone Lutheran church. I know that isn’t LCMS, but if I were to ever consider the Lutheran path, LCMS is where I would go. I also know some LCMS people up here (even though ELCA rules the roost in these parts) who I respect.
Realistically, I only list that because it’s a choice I respect. The highest liklihood is that I’ll end up in a Free/Covenant/Baptist church that puts up with my love of the early church and the Anglican tradition. However, if an AMiA bishop got ahold of me and assured me that I could be a part of a missional/emerging plant, I’d give him some serious attention.
Part of why I want to devote the time to a seminary education is to give myself time to give serious attention to theology and Bible study, and to let that help me land somewhere doctrinally. I’m always open to having my mind changed (in the semper reformanda sense), but I don’t want to spend all my life walking after God based on simple Bible study and gut reactions. Computer engineer’s logic can only take you so far before you need some serious philosophy and theology.
Anytime I am discouraged, God uses Ravi to pick me up and this piece on our individuality is typical of the excellence in communication that Ravi is capable of.
A great read from a superb evangelist.
Welcome to new BHT fellow Tim Smith. Tim is not a Lutheran, a Roman Catholic, a Baptist or a Calvinist.
Jason: How can your denominational choices contain Baptists and the LCMS? I’m flexible, but that would bend me till I broke.
So, are any bells and whistles needed for the macBookPro? I’ve bought the iWork stuff already. What other presentation stuff do I need to get familiar with?
And, this is the motherfather of all dumb questions I’m sure, but why do people use/need multiple monitors? As in Al Gore’s ubertechno setup featured in Time?
“This before that” has nothing to do with “this happens before that” in Revelation. In chapter 12, Satan pursues Jesus before he’s thrown out of heaven. Revelation is “I saw this, then I saw that.” These are scenes without chronological connection. The message, not the arrangement, is primary.
Read Michael Wilcock, The Meaning of Revelation in The Bible Speaks Today series. Also read Eugene Petersen, Reversed Thunder.
How to understand the book of Revelation:
Remember, the point is God wins. The rest is all just the drugs wearing off, secret decoder rings, and mis-direction to throw off the Roman secret police. If you doubt this, read the gospels, and consider how wrong the theologians of the day were about the first coming of Christ.
I would have joined the EFCA several years ago had that “premillenial” word not been in there.
I’m not cringing helplessly before that argument, but I’m not sure I want to start the eschatology debate, so I’ll refrain from ‘splaining why.
Jason: As you know, I agree that is is silly to retain the word premillennial in our statement of faith. Nevertheless, in an effort to solidify your historic premillenialism and keep you in the EFCA, here’s a blogpost that I tongue-in-cheek titled, “The Argument Before Which All Amillennialists Cringe Helplessly”
Said Shea: “I like the LBC better, but the New Hampshire statement is a heckuva lot better than our church’s statement.”
You got that right. (I assume you are referring to the EFCA doctrinal statement.) At the very least, all they needed to do was remove the word “premillennial” and I’d be OK with it. I’ve said this here before: I can affirm historic premillennialism, but that’s about it. Personally, I’m leaning more toward amil. I’ve discussed this some with the head of our elder board, and I hope to have a chat about it with our senior pastor at some point. I’ve been assured here and in other places that where I’m at is ok, even as an elder, since I can affirm the orthodoxy of historic premil, but I have to really check whether or not I could be ordained. If I want to stay in the evangelical tradition, I’ll probably end up going Baptist general conf. (the denomination of the seminary I’m planning to attend) or Evangelical Covenant, though I’d have some issues to wrestle with there also. (you know – little things – like women’s ordination and paedobaptism – no fights there (jn))
I suppose there’s always the siren song of my two traditional options: no, not Rome or the East – it’s Anglican or Lutheran, and the AMiA is teh awesome, even though I know a few Lutherans who would want to persuade me to go LCMS (and it’s not even anyone at this pub!). But I don’t know how I’d be able to reconcile my latent emerging tendencies there.
Very interesting post on New Hampshire vs. LBC. I like the LBC better, but the New Hampshire statement is a heckuva lot better than our church’s statement. For a theological tutor, I’d go with the LBC, but for practical use in church polity, I see the superiority of New Hampshire.
Mark Dever on why he- like me- prefers the New Hampshire Confession of Faith over the Second London and other confessions.
Surely God will be more glorified in this world as more people come to acknowledge the sovereignty and sufficiency of His grace. This is what we all desire. And I think that at this time in our setting, the New Hampshire Confession can better help men committed to the doctrines of grace and expositional preaching to lead our churches to grasp more fully the glories of God’s grace, and at the same time, allow people with questions to be a part of our congregations on the way there. Just as young pastors learn that by asking for too much too soon, they can lose a whole congregation, whereas patience can lead the whole congregation into a fuller appreciation of God’s truth, so with individual Christians, they can so often be led to understand God’s grace more fully if we don’t wrongly screen them out by asking too much, too soon.The text of the New Hampshire Confession.
Here’s the NHC on the issue Joel has raised.
Of the Fall of Man We believe that man was created in holiness, under the law of his Maker (13); but by voluntary transgression fell from that holy and happy state (14); in consequence of which all mankind are now sinners (15), not by constraint, but choice (16); being by nature utterly void of that holiness required by the law of God, positively inclined to evil; and therefore under just condemnation to eternal ruin (17), without defense or excuse (18). [3. Prov. 30:5-6; John 17:17; Rev. 22:18-19; Rom. 3:4]
It seems to me we approach this issue in several ways, and when I am teaching/preaching the dreaded Christian worldview, I use all of these.
1) Our own experience of the world. i.e. Something is wrong with all of us, something is wrong with me, and something is wrong in and with the fundamental fabric of existence. Being convinced that what we are experiencing is what the Bible calls “a fallen world” is a matter of assigning each person a place in the overall scenario.
2) The Christian story. The Bible is not a systematic theology text, nor is it a confession. It is a story. In that story, there are key points where the question is “Is sin universal?” For example, in Genesis 4, the question stands over Cain. In Genesis 5, it looms over the whole human race. In Genesis 11, sin has universalized into the Babel story. There is no question that both God’s people and the nations of the earth are universally infected with rebellion and brokenness.
3) Biblical Theology. Paul takes up this story in a more systematic form in Romans. John does the same in his gospel. Again, the universality and characteristics of sin are on the front burner, as compared to the universality and power of the Gospel.
Now, how are we to read those passages that say, “Adam sinned, and sin passed to all persons?” My short answer: See 1 and 2 above. Experientially and in terms of the Biblical story. Clearly, the point is not some bizarre notion of a sinful nature being transfered in the male seed, etc. Sin was a universal dysfunction of the entire earthly human realm. It is “passed” in every way that human beings pass on their behavior, their values, what they love, what they worship, etc.
Original sin is a crucial concept for the Gospel. What is needed is to see the truth of depravity in ourselves, our world, our story, and ultimately, the Gospel.
Joel: I am very interested in your question, but lack the theological horsepower to deal with it. So instead let me commend this sentence from your post.
Moreover, it would also seem to give a Reformed view of perichoresis a rather distinctive (and unusual) shape, but I’ll just leave that assertion elliptical.
Okay, I thought I was venturing into territory that would earn me a smack-down, but so far, crickets. Fine. Let me reset the claim that I find controversial:
All human beings are guilty in God’s eyes for a particular action of Adam’s.
This claim is essential to the traditional Western doctrine of original sin. The Scriptural warrant for it seems lacking. For example, if there were even one text that referred to us being “in Adam” with respect to his transgression, the traditional doctrine would be more plausible. But I look for such a “we sinned in him” text and I come up empty-handed (I’ve already dealt with Rom 5:12). On the contrary, the textual evidence appears to support the view that we are reckoned guilty for actually committing sins, actual works of iniquity, not for being born into a fallen state or condition.
Never mind those cows leaving the barn, I’m more concerning about my taking leave of my senses. That last post was… um… hasty and incoherent? Semi-deranged?
Oh well.
It’s been a very long week and – in case you hadn’t guessed it from my most recent posts – I’m completely knackered. But from tomorrow I’m on holiday for a week. So that is it from me for now, and hopefully in a week or so I’ll be back, refreshed and nearing coherence again. (SW)
Seems to be an interesting difference that opens the door to all sorts of consequences.
Before you go running away too far with the “interesting consequences”, bear in mind that Lutherans believe the promise of Christ cannot be separated from the context in which he gave the promise and intended it to be received. (This is why we don’t practise reservation of the sacrament)
Just to nip in the bud any speculation about going to a wine and cheese evening and thinking you can shout the WOI and turn all the bread and wine… well, I’m not even going to finish the sentence, since it’s verging on blasphemy.
Does everyone who believes in the real presence believe that only a priest has the power to make the transformation?
MOD: I knew the RC view, but was unclear on whether Lutherans believed that only priests could say the words with effect. Seems to be an interesting difference that opens the door to all sorts of consequences.
Sharon: At the risk of advocacy, I’ll say that the “I need a big machine at work” requirement was one of the things that drove me to get a Powerbook rather than an iBook. If you’re looking for a desktop machine, I’d suggest that you consider whether a MacBook Pro isn’t what you really want. I use mine at work, at home, on planes, etc. At the office, I plug it into a 19” flat-screen monitor, and have more than enough desktop space.
That said, the iMac is a decent machine for a desktop. I have one at home.
I don’t get what’s “taunting” about the pictures. Paedobaptists baptize adults, too. The big Greek Orthodox church here in Seattle has a step-down baptistery just like the one pictured there.
MOD: Sorry. Let me put my sense of humor up. That was the word used in the link I found. My error.
So are Baptists actually receiving the real body and blood and just don’t recognize it?
If the Words of Institution aren’t used: definitely not.
If they are used, but not with their intended meaning: I incline towards saying “yes”, but this is seen as debatable. Alas I don’t have time to debate it (even more so since I completely fouled up my original post somehow).
But I think Lutherans overall are less hung up than some other traditions on the question of what makes the Supper “valid”. We’re more concerned with what is confessed in the Supper and what people can/cannot say “Amen” to. I believe the Roman Catholic mass is an entirely “valid” sacrament of the altar in which the Lord’s body and blood are truly present, but that doesn’t mean I could participate.
Edit: To expand a little, here is Luther in the Large Catechism:
More »Matthew: Look here.
So are Baptists actually receiving the real body and blood and just don’t recognize it?
Does everyone who believes in the real presence believe that only a priest has the power to make the transformation?
No.
Does everyone who believes in the real presence believe that only a priest has the power to make the transformation?
Lileks on Star Wars: “Luke uses the Force – which is sort of like magnetism, plus ethics…”
Does anyone (lurkers are more than welcome to respond) know of a way to get Automator to sniff out duplicate files so that I can trash them? I think I have a whole bunch of duplicates on my external hard drive and I want to kill those suckers to make room.
The resident theologian on John 6. I was going to quote him but then realised my last post said “Let’s move on from John 6”. Oh well. Sue me. (sw)
Matthew: sounds like your local religion correspondent would fit in just fine as the Guardian’s religion editor once Stephen Bates moves on to other things. Mr Bates has been waging a journalistic campaign against Richard Turnbull, the conservative evangelical principal of Wycliffe Hall in Oxford, and his latest offering was based on the following comments by Dr Turnbull:
Dr Turnbull told [his audience]: “We are committed to bringing the gospel message of Jesus Christ to those who don’t know [him] and in this land that’s 95% of the people: 95% of people facing hell unless the message of the gospel is brought to them.”
How would you report those remarks? Well, if you’re the Guardian you’d report them under the hysterical (in all senses of that word) headline: Theologian damns most Britons to hell.
As Mr Bates observes:
If he truly believes it, the figure would encompass at least all non-evangelical Christians, including many members of the Church of England, and those of all other religions and none.
Gotta love that “If he truly believes it…”
On February 7th, 2002, a diverse group of Christians started a wide-ranging weblog conversation. Today, that conversation continues and you're invited to pull up a chair. Welcome to the Boar's Head Tavern.
“It is better to think of church in the ale-house than to think of the ale-house in church.” - Martin Luther
