Archive for September, 2007

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

Where I thought Frank was “arrogant” as I put it was in his book after converting to Eastern Orthodoxy, but I must admit it’s been many years since I read that book so my perspective may be a bit skewed. On the other hand, it may be a mistake to characterize his novels as not honoring his parents, because the characters may have been based on his parents, but they were works of fiction so I’m sure he took many liberties, which is only proper since, well, it was fiction. I only read “Portofino” of that trilogy, by the way.

While I admired Francis Schaeffer, especially in my college years, since then I’ve found may areas of disagreement, especially his opposition to Kierkegaard and his “leap of faith.”

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

Let’s assume for a moment that the son’s loutish memoir (which I haven’t read) is one extreme and the Father’s Evangelical Saintliness is the other extreme. Any possibility that the truth is somewhere between the two? The son- as his books on military families and his account of his conversion to the EO give evidence- may not be as bad as evangelicals comparing him to Franklin Graham want him to be (Franky isn’t telling dad and mom where to be buried I’ll wager) and the Father- whose credits for being an early culture warrior and examplar apologist evidence- was a good apostle in his times. I’ll wager that both can be good guys, both can be bad guys and they all can be a regular, normal, dysfunctional family.

It won’t be a crime if Franky looks at his upbringing as an ex-evangelical. We could all stand to hear a lot more of that perspective.

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

Let’s all vote on whether we want the truth. Any dissenters? Good, got that settled.

But I’m puzzled: what exactly is THE POINT of telling all the bad stuff about your parents in public? Your own therapy? Spare us. What’s left? To protect us?

Along comes a son who writes multiple books characterizing his parents’ faith in mocking terms. “Crazy”. Not just “not quite iconic in private”, but “crazy”. I’m sorry, that’s serious language. The only function of all this is the implication that his fathers’ teaching is at the least NOT TRUE, and probably PATHOLOGICAL. Fine (I’m as far from a Calvinist myself as I can get) but engage the content, don’t throw ad hominem crap at your dead dad, liberal or conservative.

I can tell you the tone of the elder Scheaffer, in public, was to respect to excess those with whom he disagreed, those whose public work he thought harmful. I was in the audience in Chicago when he rebuked the crowd for laughing at John Cage’s “music”. Our tittering was not loving, he said. I remember nothing else about that day but something I’d never understood before: the power of Christian apologetics is in love for the adversary, not the brilliance of the arguments.

Of course, that was public, not backstage. Then again, public tone is all I have of both father and son with which to judge, and since the son is insisting, in print, that we choose between the two, I have to use the one character test I have first-hand experience of. The father had a tone and tenor in his polemics which was exemplary: the son didn’t catch it. What else did the son just not catch?

My bias is against the perpetual pout, the tell-all, the noble rebel who just happened to rebel when the target of his courageous fire died. I think if the truth is what we’re after, then let’s hear the perspective of the other people who grew up in the same household. My guess is that they’ve been suffering him in classy silence, but will have had enough at some point.

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

Phillip Winn is my only friend.

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

So I’m dorking around on Facebook (yeah, I know), adding all the BHT people I can find, etc., and I noticed there was no iMonk group. Well, we can’t have that now, so I created one.

Also, if you’re a BHT person, and you have an account, and I didn’t just add you, all I have to say is OOPS. Go ahead and add me. That is all.

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

Every day, I live with the children of dedicated and zealous Christian parents. Some are the children of our staff. Some are students. Many of those kids have turned out great. Others have been manipulated, emotionally and physically abused, confused, harassed and told absurdities, lies and exaggerations as a matter of course.

All of us who are Christian parents need to walk carefully. Many of us need to repent of some fairly serious s—t. It’s not about the “shocking truth” about Schaefer. It’s the simple truth about Christian families: weirdness, emotional games, strange stories with few explanations, exposing our kids to some of the most crazy people on earth and not processing with them why they aren’t all telling the truth Whacked out rules. Too much time in church and not enough playing ball. On and on and on.

My kids will have some great ones. Mom and dad arguing over hymn selections. Dad crying over ??????? Invitational nonsense. Testimony nonsense. Revival nonsense. (Thank God my kids are Presbys and Anglicans.) Actually discussing how to not let anyone know we had R rated movies in the house. Discussing what families to NOT mention Halloween or Christmas around. On and on.

Raising your kids in the faith isn’t automatic. It’s a narrow path and we need to always always always err on the side of our kids. They deserve a normal childhood, not a collection of religious excuses and God-talk.

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

I remember hearing a tape of Franky when I was subscribed to the L’Abri UK tape lending service a few years ago. It may well have come from the “Whatever Happened to the Human Race?” series, and as Jim says, Franky sounded angry and bitter – every inch the Culture Warrior, without the more winsome qualities of his father. A depressing listen, and I wasn’t in the least surprised to find he had ended up leaving the evangelicalism with which he was clearly so frustrated.

(Edit: I think it may have been “The Great Evangelical Disaster” – i.e. a talk of that title rather than the book. IIRC, Francis and Franky did it as a two-hander. Francis was regretful, elegiac, though still penetrating; Franky was angry, and less effective. That was the difference.)

Moving from Frank(y) to Francis, what do people here make of Francis Schaeffer and his ministry? I used to be “into” Schaeffer in a big way, but it’s a while since I read any of his stuff, and I’m not quite sure what I now think of him.

On the one hand, I’m now a bit more sceptical of Schaeffer’s grand narrative of western culture since 1100 (a gut-level scepticism rather than a considered appraisal). On the other, I still appreciate a lot of what I got from him – for example, his series of talks on Job, with his argument that Job is first and foremost about the biblical understanding of history and the need to appreciate that there is an “unseen” side of history without which the “seen” part of history cannot be understood, rather than the book being principally concerned with “the problem of suffering”.

And he had a way with book titles, that’s for sure: “He is There and He is Not Silent”, “The Great Evangelical Disaster”, “Whatever Happened to the Human Race?”, and so on.

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

Michael, you raise good questions.

My answer without really landing on this is that I think the children-celebrities need to have a reason and calling to expose the sin of their parent-celebrities. I have not read Franky. But the commandment “Honor your mother and father” looms large here. It’s a call to honor your parents no matter what their character was. It’s an equal protection kind of command, and I see it as pretty radical in its demands. Did his father write a book on being the model father? That would be relevant too.

If it really was that bad an upbringing then I’m just glad Franky is still a brother.

I do hate the concept that no one is what they seem to be in public/ pulpit etc. I think this would have to mean that Franky is not what he seems to be either. I think many Christian leaders are exactly what they seem to be…. a mixture of faith/ flaws, and fruit….. in my pastoral experience and in my read of the Bible.

sigh*** we just need AUTHENTICITY…..

I see no reason to stop using that word…. : )

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

I have heard Susan Schaeffer Macaulay speak. She would not comment directly on Franky’s writings, except to say that Franky’s recollections regarding their family life were, I think she use the phrase, ‘at odds’ with those of her sisters and her own.

When I saw Franky during the ‘Whatever Happened to the Human Race’ promotional tour, he struck me as bitter. Nothing about his journey has surprised me. It’s probably impossible to say whether the Schaeffers failed as parents or whether the problems stem from Franky himself. My own experience has taught me that people are sometimes too eager to see past events into a context that justifies their present attitudes and actions.

Without wanting to judge, I’d comment that there’s an interesting contrast between Franky Schaeffer and Franklin Graham.

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

I’ve never read any of FS’s novels, but I have read some of his books on military families and watched interviews. I don’t get the impression of an arrogant man at all. I have to say I was extremely impressed with his writing and speaking on support for soldiers and their families.

Why is it necessary that the heroes of the reformed or any other team be great husbands, dads and human beings? Why is it news that a Calvinist might be better with doctrine than with raising sons? Why does it seem odd that, upon reflection, some of US seem crazy, broken, far less holy than what we are advertised?

What the heck is the problem with any of us that we fear hearing we all, behind closed doors, aren’t what we seem in the pulpit or in front of the class or on the book cover? What man in Reformedom is more of an “icon” and likely less iconic in real life than Francis Schaefer?

If this were Paul Johnson’s book Intellectuals, telling us what creeps liberal icons turn out to be, all sorts of people would call it a necessary and important service. Why can’t the children of famous Christians perform the same service?

My kids can tell the tales of what kind of man I really am, and I’m not very happy with some of that story, but it’s the truth. What do you do with the truth?

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

Can’t say I’ve ever read any of Frank Schaeffer’s stuff.  It looks interesting and revolting at the same time – kind of like a train wreck.

On a semi-related note, I never actually read any of Francis Schaffer’s stuff until I was well out of college.  This was largely due to the fact that his son-in-law was teaching the class that introduced “How Should We Then Live?” as part of the course reading material.  His son-in-law is highly intelligent but couldn’t teach to save his life.  He killed “Mere Christianity” for me as well (also a book I didn’t read through until after graduation).

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

Well, ol’ Frank(y) is certain to take a real butt-kicking over this one from admirers of the Schaeffer legacy. And from reading his past books, he definitely is an arrogant, ungrateful clod. Will I read this book? You bet your bottom dollar I will.

Sunday, September 30th, 2007

On Schaeffer, have his sisters or mother ever responded? 

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

Kletos: Ha.  Learn to count and you’ll get it.  (jn)

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

Shea: I want to hear from his sisters.

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

Shea, It is some sort of manual for murder?

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

I read Portofino in a single day while working as a temp receptionist in 1993.  I was hoping it would be a Schaefferian example of great Christian fiction.  I ended the day convinced it was the most flagrant violation of the fifth commandment I’d ever witnessed.  Frankly, I’m not even sure how much I believe him. 

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

A “review” of Franky Scheaffer’s memoir, “Crazy For God…”.

Illinois 27, Penn State 20

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

Oh, yeah.  And GO ILLINI!!!!

I-L-L…

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

I’m a White Sox fan, and that means that I was a Cub hater for most of my life.  1978-2005 to be exact.  But since we won the series, I’ve been healed.  HalleLOOOOyah!  So now I can say, go cubbies.  But I can’t say GOOOO CUBBIES!  Why not?  Because I’m healed, but I’m not an idiot.  The Cubs just got swept by the Marlins.  Let that sink in a moment. 

uncomfortable pause

That’s right, they just got swept by the Marlins.  Now for reasons I can’t explain, the Lord seems to love baseball.  And he even seems to indulge our fascination for numerology, so maybe he’ll do a miracle for the cubbies.  And maybe TP will come back from DG and shut down the blog, choosing in the future to be mentors rather than inquisitors of the emergent youth around them.  I mean, it could happen, right? Right?  Is this thing on?

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

The Phillies are hot, and the Cinderella team since Philly has had no championship in any sport for decades.  GO PHILLIES! ( I adopted them after moving here.  First love is Cincy Reds, esp. the 1975 Reds!  Then I got into Baltimore Orioles when in Maryland.  And now, by incarnational contextual theology which is demanded of any effective pastor, I root for the Phillies.)

 I still have a  sentimental soft spot for the Reds. 

 TWO QUESTIONS:

1.  By the way, are tapes/ DVD’s  of the 1975 World Series available, especially game 6? 

 2.  And are there any tell all books about the player dynamics of those years.  I heard Johnny Bench couldn’t stand Pete Rose? 

All for now, sermon brewing for tomorrow on Matthew 17:24-27.

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

Michael: Red Sox v. Cubs would be a series for the ages but I wouldn’t want to find myself rootind against the Cubbies. If the Sox don’t make it a Cubs – Yankees matchup with the Cubs as winners would be just so sweet.

Have a great time away with D. You guys are in my prayers.

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

Randy & Matthew: Thanks for the links.

Michael: I’d love to head over to DG, but life is in the way as usual. I almost went the year Mark Driscol was there, but wiser uses of $ asserted themselves. It would be fun, though, to show up there in “emerging rock guy” mode. I’m sure the green hair would have me shunned by half and witnessed to by the other half. They wouldn’t know what to do when I gave them the whole repentance and faith story. I might even tell it in Calvinist language to heighten the disconnect.

Seriously, I wonder what it would be like to meet any of the TP guys in person. I have a hunch that the rhetoric would tone down somewhat when we have to say things to each other face to face.

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

We’re preparing to head out for a few days. Denise’s sister has bought a horse and we’re going to meet him. (Same name as my son-in-law.) Then we’re going to St. Meinrad for parts of two days and a night. Love those Lucy and Ricky beds :-) Worship with the monks, some hours of reflection and prayer.

I see that the pyros are at the DG conference this week. Jason: go over and give PJ the best from his favorite bar. I’ve always noted a rather muted stance by the Macarthur crowd toward Dr. Piper. Maybe there can be more than one.

We appear to have had a breakthrough in the “Catholic thing” here at the IM compound. At least I feel like a ton of weight has been lifted. I pray to the Lord that it’s replaced with peace and joy, and never returns. VII’s statement on Ecumenism has been really helpful, and Dave Armstrong has continued to answer my questions in respectful and helpful ways. I thank the Lord for him.

Josh
: That’s Steve Hays, the big brain himself, fisking you. Chan posts for him when they want the html to look right. I am not kidding.

On Tuesday, when we return, I hope to stop in and have my Starbuck’s employed son fix me a hot drink.

I’ll blog from my in-laws and various other spots as I have time. Traveling mercies and all that.

If you aren’t praying for a Cubs/Sox World Series, you’re sick and sad. Play it during the daytime, Bud. Make it perfect. If not Cubs/Sox, then Cubs/Yanks, and let’s sacrifice a goat.

I was overly pessimistic, eh

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

Well, Randy, Bill, what can I say? I was just being a pessimistic New Englander last week, even though my New England days are long gone. But they did it, didn’t they? I see the genius of Tito now. Take it easy on your fragile slugger (Manny) and on your closer (Paps). Allow your new setup guy (Gagne) to get his bad awful innings behind him before they really count. Make sure your rotation is well set up for the playoffs, allow people to think you’re a dufus manager and, oh, btw, win the AL East. Wonderful. Now a couple of meaningless games and then the real work starts. I can’t wait. Go SOX!

And, btw, what about that Jacoby Ellsbury guy? Pretty awesome late season callup, eh? Last week, as I was singing his praises, my 20 year old daughter asked me if I would trade her for Jacoby. I said no, of course not dear, but feel free to marry the guy anytime!

Saturday, September 29th, 2007

Since I don’t know how to do YouTube on the BHT, here’s a link to that toast thing sent to me by a lurker who used to be a member of our church.

Friday, September 28th, 2007

It’s Heywood Banks. I think the song is called “Yeah Toast”.

Or else just “Toast”.

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Take a piece of bread
Put it in the slot
Push down the lever
And the wires get hot.

Yeah, toast.

Randy, you will be my hero for a long time if you can identify the author and title of the “song” from which that came. I have a CD from a friend with that on it, and it’s great for a laugh, but I have no idea who it is.

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Josh/Michael: I hope it’s gin. It will take some time for you to dissolve, of course, but in the meantime: gin!

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Michael, my only question is what chemical does Jesus want to dissolve you with?

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Take a piece of bread
Put it in the slot
Push down the lever
And the wires get hot.

Yeah, toast.

Thanks for the clarification. Since I haven’t drunk the Calvinist Kool-aid, at least very much, I’ll probably pass on the pre-pub offer.

Friday, September 28th, 2007

OK OK OK OK OK.

Let’s see if we can get this straight.

1) I have six John Piper books on my shelf.
2) I hope all Christians read Piper’s work and listen to his preaching.
3) I….Me, Michael, the iMonk—-I had to move on.
4) I didn’t throw the books away or burn them. I gave them to other ministers.
5) I love and appreciate Dr. Piper.

1) I have many Ignatius Press books on my shelves now. Lots of Kreeft, Chesterton, etc.
2) I did remove some titles because….What’s the freakin’ point anymore?
3) I did not burn or throw these away. I am sending them to the local RCC.
4) I love and appreciate the good men who write and edit Ignatius Press books.
5) I needed to move on. Sometimes we all do. Unless it’s the emerging church. Then, camp on their skinny butts until they’re destroyed.

Friday, September 28th, 2007

So, Michael, am I to understand that you wouldn’t necessarily recommend that I sign up for this Logos pre-publication offer?

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Another Reformed blog says Rick Warren deserves our support.

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Shea:

God chose me. I might not choose him. It’s wonderful having been chosen, so yes, I love predestination. But my free will might subvert it. That’s the possibility God embraced when he gave me a will.

But maybe that’s just folk theology. I’m not sure Wesley or BW3 would say it that way. I’ll defer to the younger BHTers.

Anyway, I appreciate your desire to avoid caricature.

Friday, September 28th, 2007

That’s funny.  And I too promise to eschew the a-word from my vocabulary.

Serious question.  Do Arminians love the doctrine of predestination?  What does that word mean to an Arminian?  I know what it doesn’t mean to them.  But what’s left to, in the words of Eph 1:3-5 “bless the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” for after they’ve deconstructed the term? 

If I get a good answer quickly from an Arminian, you’ll keep me from mischaracterizing you in the sermon I’m writing today on Romans 8:29.

QED

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Here it is.mam.jpg

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Mammoth age got nothin on the age of some electromagnetic radiation.

Friday, September 28th, 2007

John, Communist Jewish Freemason conspiracies aside, if you Pius IX’s Syllabus of Errors as authentic, normative, magisterial expression of the Catholic faith, ascribe to the canons of Leo X’s Exsurge Domine, and intepret Boniface VIII’s Unam Sanctam the same way you interpret Ineffabilis Deus (the bull that declared the dogma of the Immaculate Conception and is the prime example of ex cathedra teaching), then religious freedom as taught in Vatican II’s Dignitatis Humanae is indeed a heresy.  That comes back to the point I was making before about Tradition and the inherent conflicts that come up.  Dignitatis Humanae basically overturned at least eight centuries of continuous, unbroken Catholic teaching.

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Count me in, Kletos. A perfectly good existential word has been corrupted by propaganda.

(...) the frozen mammoths were from a trans-dimensional scout ship which crashed while surveying earth for possible colonization.

An interesting and strangely compelling counter-explanation, Bill . If you can show me with a diorama, how could I reasonably dispute it?

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Boycott of the week: “authentic”.
Who’s with me? As in “here at church X, we cultivate authentic relationships…” or as in “here are the 12 principles of authentic living,” etc.

As I’m still recovering from a crushing occupational setback last week, nearly everything is irritating to me.

SPACE MAMMOTHS FROM ANOTHER DIMENSION!!!

Friday, September 28th, 2007

In case you missed Joel’s incredulity about the mammoth story, I’m sure it stems from the ridiculous notion that we have 25000 year old mammoths when we all know the earth is only 6000 years old.

I suspect the frozen mammoths were from a trans-dimensional scout ship which crashed while surveying earth for possible colonization.  Everyone knows that trans-dimensional travel has a pseudo aging effect on proto-pachyderms which could easily lead to false results using modern radiometric dating methods.

Quantam Gerry-Matatics

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Overheard in a UK math class:

Now students, open your textbooks to page 543, as today we will begin studying Quantam Gerry-Matatics.  Now the first thing you will notice about QGM is that exponents function only insomuch as…

Friday, September 28th, 2007

25,000-year-old mammoth hair, DNA-rich? Please.

Can you Kannuu?

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Is this the future of mobile device interfaces? Scientific American is sceptical.

Friday, September 28th, 2007

Sedevacantism is a classic conspiracy theory. Tightly argued, logical, supported by mountains of evidence – and completely and utterly whacked out.

The constant references to “Talmudic Judaism” as one of the forces lined up against the church (along with Freemasonry, Communism and Modernism) do give the game away slightly, as do the parenthetical suggestions that Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II were, respectively, “most likely” and “possibly” Jewish.

Oh, and apparently one of the most grievous errors to flow from the heretical pseudo-council Vatican II is “religious liberty”. Lovely. (jn)

It’s also interesting to see how the writer adopts the Reformation interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 as applying to the papacy.

That said, it’s nice to come across someone for whom “Is the Pope a Catholic?” is an open question. I wonder what bears do in the woods round Gerry Matatics’ way?

Sedevacantists

Friday, September 28th, 2007

I’ve thought for quite some time that if I were a Catholic, I’d probably be a Sedevacantist.  Of course, all that does for Catholics is prove that I don’t really understand Catholicism at all, but my opinion of most Catholics is that they’re largely not well-informed about all the issues swirling around what they like to call Tradition.  A lot of it comes down to your hermeneutic—do you interpret the councils at Florence and Trent, the bulls of Pius IX, and the decrees of Boniface VIII with the historical-grammatical method, or do you use some more postmodern method (shut up, Joel) where the modern reader determines what the texts mean in a display of power?  There are related questions of authority—if Church teaching and papal encyclicals norm Catholic belief in the 21st century, then do Church teaching and papal encyclicals from the 15th century carry the same weight?  Why or why not?  How do I pick and choose which to believe absolutely?  What does this mean for an “unchanging faith?”  This is crucial because various ancient canons and even popes teach that the Church can judge whether or not the pope’s teachings are heretical, while most modern Catholics tend to deny this in the most strenuous of terms.  Likewise, if hardly anyone from 1545 to 1958 truly understood what the teaching of the Church is, what does that mean?  Additionally, it depends on where you come down on John Henry Newman’s doctrine of Tradition.  Newman’s doctrine was a genuine theological novelty and directly paved the way for Vatican II.  If you interpret what Trent says about Tradition in its historical context, it most certainly does not mean what Newman wanted it to mean.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Wow, it’s as if Gerry Matatics is to Catholics what Premil-Dispys are to Evangelicals.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Gerry Matatics, former RC apologetics bulldog and now the last true Catholic, says the church is apostate and the Papacy vacant. He lays out the whole case here. Sedevacantism.. Very interesting as you keep reading.

IM Comment Worth Keeping

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

The Scylding penned this IM comment today. In contrast to yesterday’s zoo, this is worth pondering.

Michael, Here is a relevant story for you (remember, I’m not Catholic – but Lutheran).

In the Northern part of South Africa there is a small town – not bigger than 10 – 20 K people. The white segment of that population is mostly Afrikaans speaking, church – going folks of the Calvinist stripe.

There was a young man dying of Aids – related disease. His church membership was Dutch Reformed. He was in a mess – and only his sister was there to care for him. He needed to be cleaned several times a day (and night) – she couldn’t go anywhere.

The local DR minister visted him once – basically a “be of good cheer” visit.

Then the Catholic woman’s group heard of him. They came in to help – they arranged a help schedule to allow the sister to sleep during the night, and get out sometimes. The bathed him, fed him, sat with him.

Shortly before his death, he was received into the Catholic church.

Now as the Bible would say, which of these were the young man’s neighbour?

Note – this is not a denominational issue, but one of willing hearts and mind.


Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Bill:

Gesundheit.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Baptipresutherans!

Lutherteriantists!

Presbaptutherans!

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

 Is there a name for a Baptist view of baptism, Reformed view of the Supper (as far as I understand it), and Lutheran view of predestination and assurance? That would be what I am.

MOD: Since there are now two of us, let’s form a denomination…..with the Anglican liturgy btw.


Make that three of us.  Though I still need a little bit of finishing school on the differences b/w Luther and Calvin on predestination.  Still seems to me a difference in emphasis and ways of saying much the same thing.  I say we call our new denomination “The One True Church”.  (jn, duh).

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

jesussaveslarge.jpg

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Count stands at 3 Lutherans. I only count as 1/2, as I’m something of an idiot.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Pirate, can we call you Josh now? Anyway, is there any service at your church in Lex other than Sunday a.m.? I’d like to get up sometime and renew my psychosis over being refused LCMS communion :-) Seriously, I’d like to bring Denise up to experience a Lutheran service.

I’m about to implement something at IM to respond to any commenter that suggests the answer to anything is to join their “true church.” I need a lengthy document of some kind that will be my standard answer. Something from “Babylonian Captivity?”

A commenter at Ignatius has now announced that I threw away all Ignatius books. I actually gave away some Ignatius books to the local RCC. I still have many. And the truth is that I burned all my books, then set myself on fire.

Dave Armstrong writes me really nice letters when I ask questions. As someone ridiculed by the arsonists, I have to have a liking for the guy. Really, his notes to me are always first class and very respectful and helpful.

Btw, let me publically thank Josh for his great job at the recent IM series, and especially for sending several TRs into apoplexy.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

John: The funny thing is that a couple years ago I said that before I was halfway done with my Reformed M.A. that I would probably end up a Lutheran. I haven’t found a Protestant camp whose beliefs I can fully embrace, and I don’t feel any obligation to, so I am quite comfortable being a Luthero-Calvi-Baptist. I found Josh S’s recent series at Internet Monk very helpful, and was on board with most of what he wrote. Is there a name for a Baptist view of baptism, Reformed view of the Supper (as far as I understand it), and Lutheran view of predestination and assurance? That would be what I am.

MOD: Since there are now two of us, let’s form a denomination…..with the Anglican liturgy btw.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Dave Armstrong is a self-published lay Catholic e-pologist.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007
John: I think I should count as 1/2 a Lutheran, since I will soon be a member of a Lutheran church, though I’m still a credobaptist. Can we get a ruling?

No problem! Let’s just ask Pirate to rule on what he thinks of Lutheran credobaptists.

On second thoughts, let’s not. (sw)

Actually, there was that comment on one of Pirate’s iMonk posts asking why one doesn’t find “Lutheran Baptists” in the same way one finds “Reformed Baptists”. You could blaze a trail…

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Pirate: Ahoy!

John:I think I should count as 1/2 a Lutheran, since I will soon be a member of a Lutheran church,  though I’m still a credobaptist.  Can we get a ruling?

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Ah, Pirate is back. I knew him well as a lurker. Now I fear tangling with him.

Nah, not really. Welcome back.

I do, however, expect to receive my share of disdain. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007
Presbyterians and Lutherans are so similar

Don’t say that! You’ll just provoke him! (jn)

Welcome back, Pirate. Been too long.

Three Lutherans! We only need two more and we can make our own Quinternity. (jn)

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Bob,

This post and the associated comment thread is a good intro to Dave. ;)

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

puts on Jamaican accent

It’s Pirate!  Hooray Pirate!

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Welcome back Pirate!  I don’t know why this is true, but you do liven things up. 

It’s strange since Presbyterians and Lutherans are so similar, and surely there’s nothing you add to the discussion that a good Presbyterian wouldn’t say Amen to….  Jn…..

 But sincerely, welcome back…..  you bring a unique perspective in here….    And I miss hearing the glasses crash as they are thrown across the room.   With you in here, the BHT custodian will get more paid hours of work, and he has to feed his family like the rest of us….

And Michael, I think letting another “Lutheran” in is a very healthy way of dealing with your recent angst!

BUT someone tell me, WHO IS DAVE ARMSTRONG?

MOD: This Is What I did With My Recent Angst. :-) Welcome back.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

You should tell that commenter that you know a Lutheran who’s been personally heckled by Dave Armstrong and still isn’t convinced.

Seriously.

Dave Armstrong.

Just, seriously.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

I am preparing for a discussion. Am I on the right path?: 1. The Roman Catholic Church claims jurisdiction over all Christian marriages, and therefore conformity/obedience to church teaching is the basic premise for reading all Biblical passages regarding submission within marriage.

2. The way to be saved, according to the RCC, is to believe in Jesus and obey his church.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Now I know what Joel feels like when he posts a link no one goes to.

:-)

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

What is the penance for laughing at this?

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Jason, no need for me to forgive anything in that post.  You make some great points.

After their excommunication, the Sisters of our Lady of You-Lookin’-at-Me? regroup with a little more firepower

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

nuns43xh.jpg

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Before I say this: Bob, please forgive me.

I gave a listen to the new Matt Redman release on Yahoo Music. It’s pretty good. I agree that it has some of Matt’s better lyrics. (understatement alert!) I’d be willing to play just about all of it in church. As today’s praise music goes, it’s far better than much of what you hear in some churches, and I didn’t get a “Jesus is my boyfriend” vibe from any of it. Overall, I give the CD high marks.



However, I really wish the CCM industry would realize that, musically speaking, bands can and bloody well should sound like something other than Coldplay/Delerious/U2 knock-offs! Good freaking grief. There’s nothing here musically that I haven’t heard a million times in the last 15 years. (To be fair, there are some really nice Beatles/PFR-esque exceptions here that are dripping with awesome. I submit Beautiful News Reprise as an example.)

As a production/engineering issue, there is only one volume, even when you can tell that the artist would prefer to have dynamics. Someone needs to tell these guys that when good musicians play live, we have quiet parts and we have loud parts. It contributes to the emotional range of the music. That’s why so much of the “older” music sounds so !&$% good. RECORDING ENGINEERS – LEARN HOW TO MIX A SONG WITHOUT COMPRESSING ALL THE EMOTION OUT OF THE MUSIC!




Again, I really do like this. I can see using some of these songs in the musical part of worship. I can see how they are adaptable to varied performance formats (solo piano or guitar, praise band, etc.). And, I’m sure this song is as tired as “God of Wonders” or “Lord, I Lift Your Name On High” for some people, but I love “Blessed Be Your Name”, and the bonus track version was a nice addition.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

John, tell me about it. I subscribe to Emusic, and I was forced to ATTEMPT to download their new download manager. Guess what? I kept getting an error. I can’t complete the download. There was NOTHING wrong with the OLD download manager. Why can’t these companies leave well enough alone? Now I e-mailed them and have to wait before I can download new music.

My iTunes every once in awhile asks if I want to download the new version. Why? What are the differences? I see no difference in iTunes 7.0 and 7.1, why should I download 7.1.2? Nobody tells me what good these things do except waste my valuable time, forcing me to shut down my other windows, etc. \

This makes me want to use a lot of curse words.

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Our wonderful local newspaper decided to dedicate well over half the front page this morning to pictures and stories about people camping out to get University of Kentucky sports tickets.  Which meant that the story about peaceful protestors in Myanmar/Burma being fired upon by the military was relegated to page 3.  How nice.

Forget that old WCF stuff….

Thursday, September 27th, 2007

Forget the Westminster Confession of Faith as a doctrinal guide for ecclesiastical unity.  I’m for replacing it with Matt Redman’s Beautiful News CD.   Sing those lyrics with your heart and you’re in.