It is fascinating when disparate events come together in a moment that sheds more light on each of them. Ben Myers’ latest post includes an analysis of an essay by Chantal Mouffe that relates to our class discussion today about the Catch-22 in which Holland finds itself (background: the murder of Theo Van Gogh and the threats against Ayaan Hirsi Ali). The Catch-22 is the problem with consistent application of the Principle of Toleration, a hallmark of Dutch civil society. More »« Less

Advent blog opens officially this weekend. Counting on some of you guys to keep things going. There’s an icon at IM and at Travis’s blog that you can put on your blog.

Listening to a Calvinist podcast today. An Arminian asked why the word “irresistible” is appropriate given the many verses that describe- vividly- ways that grace is refused, abandoned, etc. The response was “What do you mean by grace?” crickets

Two hundred pages into Crazy for God by Frank Schaefer. Every evangelical and every Calvinist and any Christian leader with a family needs to read this book. Wow.

—America and the Orthodox.

Mission, enculturation, and niche marketing by Father Stephen.

“There’s something wrong with a nation where people don’t sing and dance.”

Reason # 3,467 why we should never, ever, under any sort of circumstance, consider accommodating sharia law into our legal system.

Thousands demand British teacher’s execution in Sudan. It has to do with a Teddy Bear. Really.

I want the Ellul. [...]

MOD: [...] If you are on an old browser, etc. you might have a problem.

Or to paraphrase: “If you want to read Ellul, you’ll need the very latest browser technology”. The poor guy must be turning in his grave. (jn)

Nice find there, Michael. Of the 18 that I see, I think my top 4 would be (in no particular order): Violence, The Technological System, The Humiliation of the Word, and Jesus and Marx.

I want the Ellul. I can’t see the box widget. Help! Don’t tease me!

MOD: Left sidebar. Down past all the links. If you are on an old browser, etc. you might have a problem.

AUTH: Yeah, it was an old browser problem.  Now that I’m back at the work computer, I got ‘em.  I also got a helpful email from a lurker who told me they’re also available here.

Many works of Ellul that are out of print are available here for download. You have to go down to the box widget near the bottom left sidebar. You can download from there.

How about some guidance here, Joel?

My place in the world of internet theology is to point out which third of NT Wright’s theology is wrong.

But seriously, I liked your post Michael.

MOD: It’s good to have those people out there.

I came across a comment on a blog, denomination will be left unsaid, wherein the author said, and I quote:

It is good theology that SAVES us.

From the same happy camper that brought you I Hate Theology and so many other little epistles complaining about the state of theological “discussion” among evangelicals these days.

God is love. God loves his own glory most of all. God is holy. God pursues his own holiness most of all. God loves human beings. God manifests his glory by saving persons who find their joy in his glory.

God is merciful and compassionate, to the praise of his glory and grace. God is righteous. He is a covenant making, law giving God. God manifests his glory in the perfect justice that upholds his law. His mercy and holiness are not at odds, but are perfectly joined together.

God saves by forgiving sin and imputing righteousness. The imputation of his righteousness is the core of justification by faith alone. The imputation of Adam’s sin and the imputation of Christ’s righteousness are the double-sides of the Gospel message. More »« Less

I have to put myself in the middle as a Wrightian between the overly historical approach of the Jesus Seminar and the denial of the historical Jesus at all of Luke Timothy Johnson. I believe the tools of historical study, used critically and cautiously, do yield important information about and surrounding Jesus. Obviously, some questions about Jesus are well outside of what anyone can answer except in a faith experience, but I’ll take the approach of a Jesus and the Victory of God (premised on the analysis of first century Judaism in NTPOG) over absolute skepticism.

The “whines like a Kentucky pig” quote was removed from the meta at wherever I found it.

I think it was a state thing.

Actually, here at OBI, we regularly hear our hundreds of pigs on the farm make a major ruckus. Pretty imposing sounds.

Great google results, though. Love the Pig, Ky sign.

LSU Fans Smell Like Corndogs.

This morning I covered the first 5 chapters of I Corinthians with some of my favorite people in the whole wide world: old ladies. Seems to me there’s a lot of the same “I’m of Paul” and “I’m of Apollos” going on except this time it’s “You’re not of Piper” and “You’re not of MacArthur”. I’m sure I do it to when I turn up my nose at books from particular publishers and authors. I’m wrong, too.

Just not as much as you are.

Well, it makes as much sense as corn dogs and LSU fans.

John,

Back to your original response to the Capon quote, you said:

“I would prefer to start with Christ and the incarnation as the fundamental principle, and then look to see how the same pattern is found embedded in the very stuff of the universe: to start with the particular and move out to the general,...”

I’m curious what that process looks like.

If I’m understanding correctly, It seems you are against, “I know X about the universe, thus Christ makes sense in this regard,” but in support of, “I know Z about Christ, thus the universe makes sense in this regard.”

How does this play out in a specific case? For example, how do I go from my knowledge of ‘Christ as Servant-Leader’ to a valid statement about the universe?
~P.L. Matt

Plus, it’s makin’ me hungry.

Well, if you google “whines like a Kentucky pig”, you won’t find it anywhere but the BHT. Google has already found it here, but not at the original site.

That tells me that lots of people read the BHT and nobody reads whatever site it came from. So, consider the source.

I didn’t know pigs could whine.  Dogs, small children, and young adult women, yes.  Anyone have any info on pig whining?

“whines like a Kentucky Pig”?

Attention whoever said that: How erudite.  You are a prick.  Go soak your head.  My email is on the sidebar if you’d like to discuss it.

Q: Lost your credibility with whom?

A: No one I give two wits about. No one you should give two wits about.

The self-aggrandizing nature of these people is unbelievable.

My understanding is that Capon is saying Christ is present throughout all things, hence the sacramental view of the universe that is so important to all of us. The incarnation is always a person, Jesus Christ, and the presence of that incarnation is not limited to the historical Jesus alone, but is uniquely manifested in the historical Jesus.

Michael: what Jim said.

I agree that Capon’s intended point is that Christ is present throughout all things. However, as Jim points out, it is potentially dangerous to start distinguishing between the “historical” Jesus and some other kind of Jesus. I know this doesn’t apply to you, quite the opposite, but there are plenty who have gone racing off on all sorts of lively tangents by distinguishing between “the historical Jesus” and “the cosmic Christ” or what have you. The “presence of the incarnation” is not “uniquely manifested” in the “historical Jesus”: Jesus is God incarnate.

Give me Luther’s “I know of no God other than the one called Jesus Christ” any day, over any attempt to start with abstract principles and work down to the concrete Jesus (not to be confused with the concrete Jesus, of course (sw)). Even if that’s not what Capon was doing, I’m so allergic to that approach that I can’t help but react strongly against even a hint of it.

Your statement is true, but if we believe in the humanity of Christ then we must respect and appreciate the historical reality of his human life. No one is more cynical about “history” than me, and you are articulating what Luke Timothy Johnson said in responding to the Jesus Seminar. I agree completely. But I also agree with Wright that we need a kind of critical realism to talk about Jesus if we are going to relate “Jesus” as we know him by the Spirit now and Jesus as he lived and taught in his own time/place. The “historical” Jesus can be over-rated, but he can’t be over-looked.

Michael wrote:

The incarnation is always a person, Jesus Christ, and the presence of that incarnation is not limited to the historical Jesus alone, but is uniquely manifested in the historical Jesus.

Newest summation of me in some comment thread somewhere:

...this statement coming from some one who not only lost all credibility long ago but whines like a Kentucky pig…

John – interesting link. Unfortunately, Blake’s vision has dimmed – now everything is manipulated by the oligarchy. Should we not rephrase the quote – If a religion is not an affront to the oligarchy, it is a worthless religion? The marketplace rules the world, and those who want to trade in the side streets better watch out!

Youtube videos of STR’s Greg Koukl.  Good stuff.

I look away for a day, and suddenly three great new topics pop up…

1.) *Nix Naugtiness by John :

Thanks for the link to the post on the malicious unix commands. The all-punction trick you posted (I won’t repeat it here for others safety) is quite the tempting forbidden fruit. I suddenly found myself wondering if I had a spare partition I could load up with a linux just to try it out. Of course, then I read the post and learned that it was neither the most dangerous nor the most interesting option…

2.) Capon Quote by John :

I think Michael’s response is solid, but I’m with you in sensing that there’s more to explore there. I’d love to see some more context for the quote and/or hear more of your thoughts on it, John.

3.) Revelation 12 & Satan by Shea :

You’re asking an interesting question, in looking for Biblical texts that lay out evidence for the primeval fall of Satan. Michael is obviously(?) right mentioning Genesis 3 as the first. Also, Job 1 ?

I’m not so confident that Ezekiel 28 does allude to Satan. I have no problem with a hermeneutic that takes anythign and everything and gives it a double meaning to point to Christ; I much more careful about taking historical references and giving them a double meaning to point to Satan. I’m going to start by assuming “Prince of Tyre”, etc, really means a human ruler, and it will take a lot of evidence to enhance or replace that.

~ P.L. Matt

From an article on William Blake by Terry Eagleton (today is the 250th anniversary of Blake’s birth):

Any form of Christian faith that is not an affront to the state is worthless.

Discuss.

Shea: the best introduction to Lutheran teachings is the Small Catechism. I’d also heartily recommend Rick Ritchie’s article, A Presbyterian on the Wittenberg Trail. The theological theses from Luther’s Heidelberg Disputation are amazing, very strong meat (check out Gerhard Forde’s book on the subject, too). And straying away from the internet resources theme, Gene Veith’s Spirituality of the Cross is the one book you should read on Lutheranism, if you only read one. (sw)

Tod Bolsinger on meeting his two theological heroes: Nouwen and Wright.

Former BHT Fellow Wyman Richardson has an interesting post on an ecumenical view of Mary.

The line between church and Wal-Mart is getting narrower and narrower.

This is one of the speakers at the “Building Bridges” Conference. Yarnell is not seen as any friend to the Calvinists in the SBC.

The cause for concern with regard to Jesus Christ is that the key Reformation doctrine of faith in Christ and the key Believers’ Church doctrine of discipleship to Christ have been sidelined for speculative reasons by many Calvinists. Classical Calvinists consider even the use of the terminology of Christocentrism to be “imprudent.” As I have shown elsewhere, Classical Calvinism demotes faith in Christ in order to elevate philosophical speculation regarding the divine decrees and common grace. Fortunately, Baptist Calvinists like John Dagg recognized speculation should not replace experiential, practical faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Non-Calvinist Jerry Falwell, moving beyond recognition, said John 3:16 required a central focus upon faith in Jesus Christ.

Unfortunately, Baptists enamored with Reformed theology may be tempted to downplay faith in Christ in the rush toward rationalistic doctrines of predestination. Such speculations, especially with regard to eternal justification, are key to the theological development of Hyper-Calvinism.

Since immigrating to North America, I catch myself getting used to living in a safe environment. Not a bad thing. But it is so easy to become complacent, and moan and groan at the smallest thing. But then I hear something from my old country, and it all comes back. Look at these statistics, for the period 1994 – 2004 (note: The country’s population is +- 40 million, or one seventh that of the US):

Murdered: 235 069 people

Raped: 459 960 women

Attempted murder: 296 485

Serious Assault: 2 470 110

You can read the rest of the official gory detail here.  Note also that it is thought that these statistics are under reported, especially regarding rape. So, when you go to bed tonight, thank God that you’re safe, and pray for those who are not. No matter who and where they are. And preach the Gospel. Christ saves, you know?

Brief list of Intarweb reading?  Well, there’s obviously the Book of Concord.  This article on “All Theology is Christology” by David Scaer is excellent as well (you have to register; it’s free).  Other than that?  I dunno, there isn’t a whole lot online.  I’ve got a list of books that I could recommend.  There’s this whole problem of confessional Lutherans not publishing in English until the 20th century, which means most English translations are still under copyright.

Via Cracked.com, The 9 Most Bad Ass Bible Verses

Not for people lacking a sense of humor or the ability to read a bad word without being scandalized.

I am now reading my second long letter from an IM reader who is quite concerned that I have John Lennon listed on my Virb page as music I like.

Josh S: How about a brief list of internet available reading resources on Basic Lutheranism?

Peter Kreeft has one of the most interesting presentations on Catholic-Protestant Ecumenism you’ll ever hear.

Thinkling Jared is listing some side issues that evangelicals need to resolve. Numero Uno:

1. The rise of young Calvinists* who equate a commitment to doctrinal orthodoxy with a commitment to Calvinism. And on the flipside, the rise of those disinterested in doctrinal orthodoxy b/c the perception is that to be passionate about theology makes one a Calvinist jihadist.

The Bible Experience promotion video is moving.  This is the TNIV audio experience, and while I prefer the NIV, this brought me to tears.  If you watch this video, do it with the speakers turned up high, and with tissues to wipe your eyes. 

My understanding is that Capon is saying Christ is present throughout all things, hence the sacramental view of the universe that is so important to all of us. The incarnation is always a person, Jesus Christ, and the presence of that incarnation is not limited to the historical Jesus alone, but is uniquely manifested in the historical Jesus.

Shea: The passage isn’t clear and that’s because it isn’t chronological and isn’t answering “when” questions. That section of 12 is answering one question: Why is the church suffering? Answer, because the defeated dragon has not killed the Christ and is now turned on those who belong to him.

The “fall” of Satan has a space/time aspect prior to Genesis 3, but the “fall” of Satan in regard to defeat by Jesus occurs in the ministry of Jesus which previews the great victory in resurrection/ascension.

Shea: I’m sure Michael has a lot of IM correspondents who could help you out with Revelation 12. They might help prevent you from exercising dangerous private judgment in your interpretation of vv.1-6. (jn^max)

Michael: the masthead quote makes me a little uneasy. I think I see what Capon is getting at, but I am troubled at how he seems (in this quote) to present Jesus as a particular case of a general principle. I would prefer to start with Christ and the incarnation as the fundamental principle, and then look to see how the same pattern is found embedded in the very stuff of the universe: to start with the particular and move out to the general, rather than vice versa.

The Capon quote is after the fold, for future reference once the masthead changes: More »« Less

I’ve been preaching Romans for a while. Last week was 9:14-18.  Not wanting to preach the “Merry Christmas, Vessels of Wrath” sermon next week, I’m taking a break from Romans for Advent. 

Instead, I’m stealing an idea from my virtual friend Cavman and preaching an Advent series on Revelation 12. 

My question is, when was the dragon hurled down to the earth?  It seems like it must be neither a primeval “fall of Satan” nor an eschatological conflict.  It happens on the occasion of the birth of the Messiah, (ultimately accomplished on the cross and then progressively realized through the mission of the church).  If that’s true, then is there any other biblical evidence for a primeval fall of Satan?  I know the Isa 14, Ez 28 passages and I think they do allude to Satan, but perhaps they too point not back to prehistory but forward to what Christ would accomplish in his life, death and resurrection.  Help me think this through.

Wouldn’t an iTunes track normally be a DRMed AAC file?

But that aside, I was assuming it’d be MP3, because WMA files don’t play on iPods, so the reference to iTunes would be rather misleading if it were WMA.

Yes, you’re right…I was typing quickly and mis-typed while trying to keep my daughter from tearing down the Christmas tree.

It’s a bit old, but >this Ubuntu Forum thread giving examples of malicious commands for *NIX systems should be enough to strike terror into the heart of any GNU/Linux or OS X (?) user.

Now, not only do I have to worry about getting a sudden urge to jump off the platform as a tube train approaches (am I admitting too much about myself here? (sw)), I have to worry about getting the sudden urge to type:” into a bash shell. (Seriously: Don’t Do That. Seriously seriously seriously. Please. Read the link if you want to know why not.)

Speaking of Christmas music, does anyone own Bill Mallonee’s Christmas album, “Yonder Shines the Infant Light”? I’d like to hear your thoughts because the sound clips are just too short.

John, yes, that’s the album. Given the reference to it not being available on iTunes yet, I’m guessing it’s an mp3 download, something similar to what you would get if you downloaded from iTunes.

Wouldn’t an iTunes track normally be a DRMed AAC file?

But that aside, I was assuming it’d be MP3, because WMA files don’t play on iPods, so the reference to iTunes would be rather misleading if it were WMA.

And anyway, for $10 – at the current exchange rates, gloat, gloat (jn) – it’s worth a go anyway.

John, yes, that’s the album.  Given the reference to it not being available on iTunes yet, I’m guessing it’s an mp3 download, something similar to what you would get if you downloaded from iTunes.

Is the Andrew Peterson Christmas album people were raving about yesterday “Behold the Lamb of God”?

I’m thinking of downloading it from his website, but can’t find any information on there about the format (MP3? WMA?). Does anyone here happen to know what format the download comes in?

My attitude towards DRMed formats is Hostile, bordering on Psychotic. (jn)

(Incidentally, one weird “feature” of the Rabbit Room site is that you can edit the website text. The altered text will still be there if you go back to that page in the same session, but it doesn’t look like you can actually alter the text seen by other people. Even so, if I were a 5up3r l33t h4xx0r then no doubt I could pWn them into oblivion. Or 0b11v10n, perhaps.)

Sorry Travis. I can be somewhat comforted that IMs numbers are growing rapidly. About 30,000 uniques a month on the average this year. People love the freak show.

Which leads me to appreciate Pearls Before Swine’s comic for today.

TSK posted about Christianity.com’s Bible tool, complete with the ability to add notes and highlights. It’s yet another online Bible study tool, but I was amused by this little quip:

Apparently you can customize your Bible, write notes, and highlight it with colors which means that some of my über-reformed friends can now create their own Red Letter Version of the Bible by highlighting the word of the Apostle Paul in RED.

Robert Sungenis gives a detailed answer to my questions on Trent and responds to the RCs criticizing him in the IM comment threads. It’s a .doc, but it’s a fascinating read. Josh will really appreciate it.

If he’s right, I’m going to hell and Joel is going to heaven. Kind of splits along musical lines apparently.

Meanwhile, blogging is captured perfectly.

Sorry Travis. I can be somewhat comforted that IMs numbers are growing rapidly. About 30,000 uniques a month on the average this year. People love the freak show.

You see what happens when we all try to make nice and avoid foolish controversies? We’re not tickling any itching ears. Come on lads:

NT Wright is a genius! Piper and MacArthur don’t understand justification! Brian McLaren is the captain of team awesome! Contemplatives get it right and Calvinists don’t get it at all! Start a petition to get Sufjan to record all the Silly Songs with Larry. Tell Josh that Tetzel was right.

That’s got to make somebody mad…

Well here’s some somewhat unhappy news. According to our stats, our traffic from unique visitors has dropped about 20% in the last two months.

Well here’s some somewhat unhappy news. According to our stats, our traffic from unique visitors has dropped about 20% in the last two months.

IOWs, we’re boring.

If any of you can get WNYC’s Soundcheck program (you can probably listen online, too), which airs tomorrow at 2:00 pm, Nicole Atkins is going to have a piece on BXVI’s intended reformation of liturgical music in the RCC. The teaser sounded promising.

I’m doing this via blackberry – it works quite well it seems. To be concerned with God’s glory to the extent where you engage in ceaseless controversy seems to be counter-productive. Parsing doctrine for the sake of rationalism is not always a safe enterprise. The need to know, love and obey should supercede the need to understand. I am not trying to negate the “theological enterprise”, but I question the seemingly incessant need of espesially some Calvinist writers to always target the next issue whereby to criticize those of non-Calvinist persuasions. In the end, their gaze is on doctrine, and not on Christ, which of course causes an imbalance in their doctrine.As Karl Barth quoted for his greatest insight: Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so!

Yuck. That was brutal. Has the old two-backed beast ever been less appealing?

The Literary Review gives the late writer this year’s Bad S*x Award, described as Britain’s “most dreaded literary prize”. He beat off a glittering array of (living) talent, including Ian McEwan and Jeanette Winterson.

Warning: you won’t be edified if you click that link. Language and content warnings.

And you’ll be even less edified if you read the shortlisted passages. So don’t. OK? (jn)

Thanks for that pic, Michael, I mean, “Van Til.” The bar needs a new pin-up girl ever since Joel fell asleep against the wall and drooled all over the Farrah poster.

Let me straighten you out on that one: “In everything you do, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God,” is better translated as “Whatever I do, no matter how self/team serving, glorifies God. If you don’t believe it, just ask me or dozens of my friends.”

That should preach.

Is God receiving less glory from those have to remind us how right and awesome their heroes are? Stealing from Peter to pay Paul?

But it was a great picture.

Facebook users….I hope you are paying attention.

I realized today that my willingness to enter a critical discussion of John Piper is costing me friends. Real, actual friends. People who are going to not just de-link me or make snarky comments but people who won’t be part of my life or ministry. This is just stupid. Did you read the letter at Scot McKnight’s blog? We’re heading for that all over the place in the SBC. The formerly ignored minority is going to become the loud, pushy, judgmental minority and make as many people miserable as possible in the name of theology. And the nice guy Calvinists won’t be able to stop them. (Aside from a few hand wringing posts and sermons, I don’t expect them to try.)

I also scored Irish – but given that this is a tavern, is it really surprising that a lot of us do?

But my ancestory is French, Dutch, German and English.

Given that this is a Tavern, though, with all of us “inner – Gaels” frequenting it, I should say that our drink of choice should be Guiness??

Debunking 9-11 Conspiracy theories.

More Calvinist explanations.

Josh said it: Our need to justify God. Anyone listening to that one? Anyone got a thought on just how amazingly true that is?

Paula White did Larry King last night. Ummm…that sounded bad. Paula was on Larry King…....This isn’t working. Transcript at CNN.com somewhere. King is the go-to guy for cruddy creeps taking money from the poor in the name of God. His softball questions are perfect. “Now Mr. Hitler, what’s your favorite color?”

Getting some nice notes from people at the conference I was supposed to attend. Sorry folks. Hope I can see you soon. (Especially the guy who was going to buy me that steak :-)

Santa has sorted out his lists and everyone should have received the needed info. If you wish to participate but have not received anything from me, or if there is any other problem,  please let me know asap.

A Happy Christmas to all!

My inner European is Irish?!?  I do love the Irish and their Emerald Isle but, in a blind taste test, I’m sure I couldn’t tell a Guinness from a Miller Lite. I hate beer! How did this happen?

It’s no surprise to me that I scored Irish. My ancestry is a little more complicated, though. I have French, English, Irish, Danish, German, Dutch, a little Norwegian, and possibly but not likely some Sioux (Lakota). (There’s a gray area in the family tree with some great grandfathers.) Looking back through the Irish, there’s probably some Scot in there, too, but it’s hard to know for sure. Perhaps Celt would be a better term. I look mostly Danish, taking after my Mother’s side, but I identify most strongly with the Irish and German. I think beer must have something to do with that. 8-) Normally, I tell people I’m a mutt, and go into detail when asked. It’s fun/odd to think that I probably had ancestors on both sides of the battle in 1066.

I scored Irish twice (took this a couple weeks ago), though I couldn’t drink a 3-year-old under the table. In reality: 1/4 Irish, 1/4 Swedish, 1/4 Acadian (I think), 1/4 ??? (some Scottish and apparently Native American in the mix).  Must be amusing to those of you with a historical consciousness.

Santa will be sending out all BHT Christmas information asap. Send your questions to me or Richard and we will broker information for you to assist in your gift buying.

Michael: thanks for the round.  The “I hate theology” article was helpful.  And a big Amen and Amen to Abraham Piper.

I totally expected my inner European to be English or Scottish. (My outer European being Irish, obviously).  But it turns out my inner European is Dutch.  I don’t know what that means.  It was a hard choice between meat and potatoes and Asian noodles.  I should have went with meat and potatoes.

Abraham Piper once again writes what others just won’t or don’t. A must read and very needed.

Read the original letter to Scot McKnight as well. And especially the comments, where a dozen Calvinists clarify what is and isn’t a “hyper,” but no one will critically engage Piper’s theology.

Apparently, the definition of rhetoric is well over the heads of some in the TR blogosphere.

Read this several times. Then try again.

BHT Christmas sign-up ends tonight.

So how goes the Latin Mass? GetReligion has the story.

Joel gets to post the survey result in the html, but the rest of you please only post the result. No html.

Bill: I really think the list is primarily Piper, and I have no idea what the big deal is. Honestly. It makes no sense. Macarthur’s dispensationalism got a lot of criticism from within the reformed community. Macarthur does have vigorous and hard-hitting defenders. Piper….I just don’t get it. Piper has invented- literally- an entirely new way of articulating reformed theology, he regular states things in tremendous extremes, he is relentlessly logical and is a flagrant user of proof-texting. Why he can’t be discussed critically- and N.T. Wright or Brian Mclaren can- just defies explanation.