Ten Deep Breaths

RC Apologists in the IM comments

Ten Deep Breaths

It almost looks like the Dodgers are renting/acquiring Manny just for the series against the D’Backs. Maybe it’s a smart move – if he decides to play? It mystifies me that anyone wouldn’t want to play for the Red Sox, but if he doesn’t want to then they’re better off without him.

Manny? A Dodger?

Pirates outfielder Jason Bay is headed to the Red Sox. The Pirates will receive Andy LaRoche and right-hander Bryan Morris from the Dodgers and outfielder Damien Moss and releiver Craig Hansen from the Red Sox.

Who wants their gas to smell like rotten eggs or moldy corn? Let’s all switch to used veg. oil and have the world smell like french fries!

Imagine the benefit for “big fast food” – every time you go out and drive somewhere, you get the uncontrollable urge to buy the supermegaburger with extrahugeass fries.

Not only did this make me laugh but it looks like it was taken in the BHT today, judging by the excitement level…

Thanks, Josh! I know I can always count on you for even-handed and fair thoughts on Roman Catholicism.

jay-enn

I smell like moldy cream corn right now, and it isn’t nearly as pleasant as it sounds.  What does this have to do with global warming?  Well, since you asked, I’ll tell you.  I’m outside of Peoria, Ill at a plant that sequesters the CO2 for an gigantic ethanol plant.  Yes, Martha, processing corn into ethanol produces green house gasses, who knew?  I know next to nothing about climate models, polar ice patterns, and the scholarship involved in climatology…but I can tell you one thing:  tons of fermenting corn will make you pine for the day when fuel production smelled like rotten eggs (SO2). 

TMH: The quick answer is “yes”. Leo XIII didn’t mince his words back in 1896, when he said:

We pronounce and declare that ordinations carried out according to the Anglican rite have been, and are, absolutely null and utterly void.

However, I’m sure it would have been possible for the Roman Catholic understanding of Anglican orders to (ahem) “develop” had things gone differently within Anglicanism. Perhaps some new historical sources would have been found to show that the consecration of Matthew Parker in the Nag’s Head was in fact valid (jn).

But now the ordination of women priests and consecration of women bishops finally puts the tin lid on things. Never mind the intricate ins and outs of whether the “Edwardine Rite” cuts the mustard: once you have women bishops then all subsequent ordinations become suspect in RCC eyes, since the women bishops break the chain of “apostolic succession”.

Are Anglican orders null and void in the view of the RCC? Now? or When?

Craig Detweiler asks about the muted reaction to the Unitarian-Universalist shootings in Knoxville.

Mack:

I am filing that Triablogue post in my filing cabinet under ‘T’ for tl;dr

Quicker just to file Triablogue in there, full stop*. (jn)

(* British for “period”. Makes a lot more sense than “period”, too, doesn’t it? Just saying…)

The Church just hadn’t developed yet.  Duh!  Now repeat after me,

To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant, to be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant, to be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant, to be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant, to be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant…

Hi, I’ve been in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, just northwest of Marquette. If you’ve never been, you should go. Fishing, swimming, hiking, even casinos; what more could one want? It’s paradise!

I am filing that Triablogue post in my filing cabinet under ‘T’ for tl;dr, but I’d just like to note that there is plenty of evidence on both sides of that argument for people to reasonably believe whatever they want about it. If you want our side of it, I’d refer you to Newman (so you can file it in your own tl;dr folder, of course).

TMH: I think this is the link you had in mind.

Here’s a wild guess: Christianity in the 1st/2nd century Mediterranean looked remarkably unlike the 20th/21st century American versions of either Roman Catholicism or evangelicalism.

Besides, the early Christians were all Lutherans. (jn+)

Jason Engwar at Triablogue has posted a list of things about the early church pertaining to the RCC’s claim that the early church was the RCC.

- There was no papacy. – There were multiple forms of church government, including forms not involving a monarchical episcopate. – Church leaders were required to meet moral and doctrinal standards, and it was considered acceptable to disobey or separate from a leader who violated such standards. – When apostolic succession was discussed, it was defined in different ways by different sources, and the concepts discussed involved reasoning and qualifications that we don’t find in modern Roman Catholic arguments for apostolic succession. – Infants weren’t baptized initially, and the later practice of infant baptism was largely done for a different reason and at a different time than we see in modern Catholicism. – There were multiple views of the eucharist on issues such as a eucharistic presence of Christ, and John 6 was sometimes interpreted metaphorically, for example. – Though most of the early post-apostolic sources advocated some form of justification through works, some advocated justification through faith alone, and those who advocated justification through works disagreed with each other about the nature of the works, sometimes contradicting Roman Catholicism on the issue. – Mary was believed to have sinned. – They often discussed subjects such as bodily assumptions and what happened to men like Enoch and Elijah without mentioning a bodily assumption of Mary. The concept of an assumption of Mary is absent, including in contexts where it would be appropriate to mention the concept. – Whether Mary was a perpetual virgin isn’t discussed much, though the earliest view seems to be that she wasn’t. – Passages of scripture often cited in support of Roman Catholic Marian doctrines, such as Revelation 12, were interpreted differently than Catholics interpret those passages. – The concept of Purgatory was initially absent and widely contradicted, and some of the later ante-Nicene fathers who are sometimes cited in support of the doctrine can only be cited for partial support, along with partial contradiction. – There was widespread opposition to the veneration of images. – There was widespread belief that prayer is to be offered only to God, not to angels or deceased humans. – Despite much acceptance of one or more Apocryphal books as scripture, some of the Apocryphal books accepted aren’t accepted by Roman Catholicism, and some sources rejected the Apocryphal books. – Premillennialism seems to have been the most popular eschatology.

The whole post is here.

Pray: Griffey may be a White Sock.

Those of you who doubted my predictive powers about Manny’s hair and the Florida Marlins may want to get your money to the betting window asap.

This from my Reds Trivia feed, esp for you Birdie Boys:

July 3, 1967: A vicious brawl punctuates a 7-3 Reds loss at St. Louis. In the 5th inning, Cardinals pitcher Bob Gibson dumped Tony Perez into the dirt with a pitch. After Perez flied out, he had words with Gibson on the way back to the dugout. Both benches emptied, but peace seemed to be restored until the Reds bullpen led by Bob Lee came flying into the action, and fights broke out all over the field. It took 12 minutes and a contingent of more than a dozen St. Louis policemen armed with billy clubs to quell the melee. More than a dozen Reds players had to be treated for cuts and bruises.

I’ve been listening to /Film.com’s “Filmcast” podcast. Very enjoyable podcast for grown ups. (Major language warning.)

A Sudanese bishop on Rowan Williams:

“The Archbishop of Canterbury is like a saint. We are so impressed. We have never known anyone quite like him. He has had all these important people here, the Coptic archbishop, the Orthodox, the Chief Rabbi, all these Cardinals. Every time he puts them on the podium and lifts them up above himself. It is as if he is saying, listen to these people before you listen to me. Oh he is such a leader. He is a true Christian. He is so humble. His witness has been so powerful. That is the message we are taking back to Sudan.”

 

It had to happen in Cali. Elderly twins overrun their palatial neighborhood with rats. Yeah…rats.

Meanwhile, these Canadian Film Festival posters are great. Do you get the joke in all of them?

Jim:

I also punctuate and capitalize words properly.

Up to that point, I was with you. But correct punctuation and capitalization? That’s just sick.

I’m definitely on board for the post-bible-ism thing. However, I don’t kill babies to feed my sexual addiction. These days,  I feed my sexual addiction by sleeping around. I kill babies for food, just like God intended. I also punctuate and capitalize words properly.

Two close calls with skunks on the last dog walk. Not good.

Noel and Ryan are moving to Oneida tomorrow. Please pray for them. It’s a 5 hour trip in a car, and I’m sure quite a bit longer in the truck. The weather tomorrow looks bad.

I’m getting a lot of young, eager letter writers and commenters at IM. Many of them just want far more of my attention than I can give. If Al Mohler can hire “researchers,” why can’t I?

John H & Scylding:

I’m reminded of a GB Shaw quote that seems appropriate:

The British are not a very spiritual people.  So they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity. 

I had the chance to play cricket at a company picnic some years ago.  It was entertaining, but I couldn’t get it into my head that its OK to hit the ball behind home plate as well…too confusing.  Although, it has given my friends and I one of our most favored afirmations of skill, ‘That was a wicked googley!!!’.

TMH:  Stop quoteing me from IM! 

TMH: Just think: only 15 years ago, you would have had to listen to call-in talk radio for hours to get those kinds of insights. The internet is such a time-saver.

This just in at the comments at IM:

Sounds to me like this post-evangelical crap is just the old “Lets (sic) mix Jesus with the world so we can sin & not feel guilty” Crap! you (sic) should call it what it really is – Post-Bibleism (sic) for those that worship themselves over God. after all who want to foillow (sic) a God who expects holiness from us, it’s much better to make up our own little gods & cut & paste verses from the Bible.

Let me guess, the writer also believes that Gay is christian & that killing babies is OK because it lets men & women feed their sex addictions.

Lame, totally lame. Well the Old testament did prophecy (sic) that good would be called evil & evil would be called good & Paul did say that the false church would be fooled by false prpphets who love to hear themselves talk – could he have meant the writewr (sic) of this post-evangelical crap????????????

John – now how did you know that ? (evil cackle follows….jn+)

A lady wrecked into our car at the grocery parking lot.  My wife, filled with compassion for her just took her insurance information, trusting her admission that she had run a stop sign.  The woman promised to take full responsibility as there was not any question as to fault. 

Now that has changed.  No witnesses, no police report, major damage to two doors on a van (probably at least 8000.00 damage), and our insurance will likely get stuck for it.  And we the increased rates….

Anyway, a lesson learned.  ALWAYS call the police! 

Prayers for honesty appreciated….

While y’all are sympathising with TMH in his hour of darkness (jn), spare a thought for those of us in England, who have had to endure a performance by our national cricket team today which the Guardian described in appropriately measured terms as follows:

WHAT A COMPLETE GODDAMN SHAMBLES. Panesar runs himself out going for a stupid second run. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY BLOODY AWFUL. Two run outs in two balls, both totally gratuitous. This has been the worst single innings performance by England I’ve seen in a long long while. OK that’s a lie. It’s no worse than any other amount of rubbish they’ve produced over the last two years. Pure unadulterated filth all round. Utterly humiliating.

C’mon mate, don’t sit on the fence: tell us what you think. (jn)

One former England captain observed that “the ineptitude of England’s batting at the end of that innings was quite stunning”, while another former captain commented that he was “struggling to find anything positive to say about it”.

Scylding: wipe that smug grin off your face. (sw)

I wonder if any differences between dispensationalists and postmillennialists is more cultural than specifically theological.  The latter tend to be more educated, more historically aware, and more interested in premodern art and literature, and thus have more positive attitudes toward top-down political structures and the syntheses of church and state we find in the Byzantine and Holy Roman empires, which tend then to be a subtext under the “kingdom” speak.  Dispensationalists tend to be right-leaning Americans with the attendant strong suspicion of exaggerated political power, especially the state imposing its will on religion, and a tendency to speak of the Bill of Rights in the same way that they speak of Scripture.

IMO, they’re both a little loony.  On one hand, you have the people who want to create the imperishable and ideal Christian society where Jesus reigns supreme.  On the other, you have the people who are predicting Jesus will come back some time in the next two weeks based on some sign or another.  Both projects have parallel, uninterrupted, 2000-year old histories of failure.

No worries. This has taken place so that you can see the glory of … Todd Bentley.

Revivalist appears to have murdered wife, put her in freezer, then gone about his ministry as a preacher.

The Griffey situation is horrible to watch. I love the guy, and he’s so classy in contrast to the rest of sports. He does things for people that Reds fans know about that no one else does that just are amazing.

But the guy is the curse on this team. No leadership ability. He is just not that person. He’s way below average now in everything, but still has to be treated as a star by Dusty, because Dusty won’t sit him or bat him 7th. (Dusty is insanely loyal, which is a two-edged sword as a manager.) The average fan is so down on Grif that it’s awful to listen to, because he isn’t to blame. He’s a first round HoF guy, but he just has no fire, no leadership, and now he needs to go away so the team can move on. He has no trade value for anyone, not even the Mariners. Thank God Barry Larkin never put the team through this. It’s a bad way to end your career. Ugly.

I can add to it.

Pedroia = Rose  Talk about punks.

Manny = Foster  Just as adventurous in left field and just as likely to take your head off with a liner.

We have no Concepcion, for sure.

Lowell = Doggie  Quiet and dependable.

We have no Borbon. Well, yes we do. Delcarmen and some of the other relievers can sure make it an adventure.

I’d take Bench’s hitting over Varitek’s, but I think Jason handles pitchers better.

I’d take Geronimo in center over either one of the Sox guys. He’s one of the great underrated players in history. He is kind of the equivalent of JD Drew.

We don’t need no stinkin’ Griffeys around here.

Our DH is way, way, way better than the Reds one.

I will say that the thought of a Cubs/Sox series is sweet.

Manny’s hair and need for a restroom in the outfield limits the number of teams he can play for. Bobby Cox would sit on him and shave his head and make him a pinch hitter.

I think Manny’s hair would only go in Detroit or Florida. His need for an outdoor restroom limits him to the Cubs and the Twins.

I actually like Arroyo as a batter. As a pitcher he sucks.

The Reds won in 75, 76 and 90. That means the Red Sox should win another ring in 2021. Don’t get cocky.

I’m guessing it has more to do with a certain Bronson Arroyo than a Beckett or a Papelbon. I could almost not blame you for that. I was glad to get rid of that guy.

The thought of you wishing anything good for the Yankees brings me great pain. Please don’t do that. Almost anything but that.

Two rings in four years is a good thing after the history the franchise has had. You didn’t mind it so much when it was your team that was the big machine, did you?

As for Youk’s batting eccentricities, just remember Joe Morgan flapping his wing and it might calm you down a bit.

I would love to see the Reds of the seventies play the Sox of today. Stratomatic, anyone?