And Steve Hays. Don’t forget Steve Hays.

Hi Michael and everyone else at the BHT!

My (pseudo-)name is Mack. Long time listener, first time caller, you might say. I can’t remember how I found the BHT, but I remember I was sitting bored in a coffee shop on my laptop in the summer of 2006. I’ve been enjoying it (off and on) ever since.

A little bit about me: 23 years old. From Chicago, IL (go Sox!). Just graduated from Purdue University (go Boilers!) with a degree in Classics. I also just married my best friend on May 17. I’m currently a grad student getting my MS in Mathematics.

I’ve been a Roman Catholic since infancy, with a brief stopover in atheism. C.S. Lewis was a huge influence in rehabilitating me, as were the prayers of many family members (Deo gratias).

Most of my friends are atheists or otherwise non-RCs, so I’m used to talking about theological matters with people with whom I disagree. I want to always respect everyone else’s position (let me know if I’m ever out of line, please); and I ask for the same respect from all of you.

I am especially fond of the following things (in no particular order, just as they come to me): praying the Liturgy of the Hours; Sufjan Stevens; Pedro the Lion; Deathcab for Cutie; Homer (esp. Iliad); the Gospel of John; Wendell Berry; Fyodor Dostoevsky; Fulton Sheen; the Greek language; the Latin language and the 1962 Missale Romanum.

I was going to post a little quote from St. Basil the Great (which I quoted in my introductory letter to Michael, and which I in turn found at this blog), but Michael beat me to the punch; I’ll reiterate it because I think it’s worth reiterating, and I think it serves as a good guide to œcumenical relations between Christians:

“Let us then seek no more than this, but propose to all the brethren, who are willing to join us, the Nicene Creed. If they assent to that, let us further require that the Holy Spirit ought not to be called a creature, nor any of those who say so be received into communion. I do not think that we ought to insist upon anything beyond this. For I am convinced that by longer communication and mutual experience without strife, if anything more requires to be added by way of explanation, the Lord Who works all things together for good for them that love Him, will grant it.”

Allow me to indulge you with some autobiography (unfortunately, this seems to be the only style I know how to write in!).

There is a certain sense of loneliness I feel here at BHT as I read over the endless debates over historical theology and the validity of long established strands of ecclesiological tradition. The Catholics, the Lutherans, the Baptists, the Reformed, the Orthodox, the United Methodists all seem to give a deep sense of identity that is meaningful and worthy of… well… throwing a few chairs at others every once in a while. I think my consistent lack of contribution to these discussions reveals how meaningless it is to call myself an “evangelical”—or is it?

My background is checkered. I grew up in an ELCA mega-church (7,000 members), that practiced the charismatic gifts without fault—that is, of course, if you are charismatic. The church left the ELCA over the issue of homosexuality, yet retains the Lutheran identity in terms of liturgy and sacrament. I think it is still growing.

After leaving that setting I became a Christian vagabond who roamed the country and participated in parachurch organizations on and off in search of leadership training and discipleship programs. Organizations like the Navigators provided my spiritual community. Then after I found that to be a fruitless endeavor, I joined the Great Commission Ministries/Churches denomination through my relative’s relationship with it (my uncle and cousin are a pastors).

GCM is a missionary denomination that started in the 70’s through the work of some former Plymouth Brethren. There aren’t any uniform practices, liturgy, hymnody, prescribed models for doing church, or idiosyncratic doctrinal distinctives. More or less, it subscribes to a statement of faith that could have been authored by Sattleback.

Certainly there is something missed in the deep traditions named above by a person like me. Yet with this in mind, I want to advance some advantages. First, while being of simple origins, the idea of Christian community has been a reality, for the most part, in my life. The ideals of loving God and others in community have been pushed over against all others that has made for experience that has brought me closer to Jesus. Second, I do not often feel compelled to get defensive when someone questions my church—if anyone ever does. This has had a disarming effect on outsiders who feel more allowed to seek and explore whatever it is that I believe without feeling an antagonistism to conform. Third, it has been nice to be free from the compulsion to always be arguing with other Christians. If anything has stifled my faith, it has certainly been that.

Being an “evanjelly-fish” doesn’t have a lot of advantages—especially in a place like this. Certainly it has put a longing in my heart for something more traditional/confessional. But I think it would be a mistake for me to view my “low church” experience with contempt—after all, it’s the path Christ put me on.

Call me Shea. It’ll bring back memories of high school soccer. I am the pastor of an Evangelical Free Church in Champaign, IL and have been since 1994.  Before that, I spent two summers in India, anticipating being a career missionary there. How the plans changed is a story I’ll tell later. My internet moniker has been isaiah543, because Isaiah 54:3 is the verse from which William Carey preached his “deathless sermon” in which he is purported to have said “Expect great things from God. Attempt great things for God”. It’s also a verse God impressed upon me in May of 1989. “Your descendants will dispossess nations and settle in their desolate cities.” Mobilizing for missions is a big theme of my ministry.

Champaign-Urbana is the home of the University of Illinois, where I studied philosophy. I believe I was born again while I was up all night reading the gospel of Matthew alone in my dorm room my freshman year. Before that I had called myself a Zen Buddhist for about a year and before that I had no church background. After college I served on staff with the Navigators at Northwestern University while going to seminary at Trinity. In the early years my theological influences were CS Lewis and Dallas Willard. Since seminary, it’s been Calvin, Owen, Edwards, Spurgeon, Lloyd-Jones, Piper and, most recently, Keller. I’m turning 40 this year and am the father of five children who are going to public school. My wife is working on her masters in early childhood special education. I’m currently working on a certificate in biblical counseling from CCEF via distance education. I guess I should add David Powlison to the list of recent influences.

I love playing the guitar, White Sox baseball, and reading Steinbeck and authors like him (any recommendations for me?). I also teach Hebrew at Urbana Theological Seminary.

My beer preferences are always migrating, but my scotch preferences remain consistent. Island and West Coast malts for me.

Gerald: Congratulations! Looks like we lifted the ban on Texans just for you. Probably the fact that you are a former Southern Baptist makes it more acceptable, because that practically makes you a former Texan. : )

Take my advice – leave while you still can!

Just joshin. Welcome.

Michael: I am interested in reading the story about protestants converting to EO, but the link isn’t working for me.

Kent: I share your categorical dismay. If you are submitting to the uncategorical categorization, then I will follow you into the categoriless abyss.

BUT I’M GOING DOWN IN A BLAZE OF GLORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesse, is EO the ‘cultural/mainstream’ religion of Romania?

IOW, would EO be to her as a Romanian Protestant akin to what the RCC would be to an American Protestant…in which case if it is enmeshed with the culture to some point there may be a cultural disdain even though there may not have been direct (aka ‘participatory) involvement.

Jason, I’d love to hear more about your adoptive process…we are in the midst (meaning ‘long wait’) of ours. My iPod sags in the middle from the weight of my as-yet unheard NTW teachings…

Brian, try here, here and here. Also search by speaker’s name in iTunes.

Edit: Sorry Brian, yes free.

Phillip, now that our responses are becoming codified and published I find myself wishing I took the whole thing more seriously.

Baptism: When you decide, follow Jesus in obedience.
The Lord’s Supper: Is a long, tasty teaching meal full of tears and joy. Totally non-sacramental – “sacrament” = commodity sold by cleric.
Emerging Church: Yada, Yada, Yada; however, beats listening to Dr. Dobson.
Young Earth Creationism: Been there, did that, outgrew the T-Shirt.
Cessationism: Like I can tell God what to do…Like I can tell others what God told me…
Abraham Lincoln: A sad leader at a sad time.
Gender Issues: None.
Inspiration of the Bible: God’s Story of his relationship to man told to the Church through fallen men.
Gay Marriage: Has no impact on mine.
Education (Home, Public, Private, None): However parents decide, I fully support public schooling.
Who is TR on the BHT?: Everyone here is way too graceful, maybe it’s the beer…
Sanctification: A lifelong process of submission to God, through His Son Jesus.
BHT Comments: In rehab where they belong.

Jim, I figured you’d be ‘in’ and I figured you wouldn’t reply ‘til Thursday. You proceeded my expectations.

On the beer hall test thing…a big ‘meee tooo’ with both Michael & Jack. I cannot wait to see (in this order) the results for Pirate, Jim & Joel. Santa is wiggling his frozen glutes off with anticipatory glee!

Jack, I so much look forward to the day that our adoption(s?) are paid off and I can afford to meet you somewhere warm enough for you to tolerate (it’s 3 now, heading to a cozy high of 15 today).

Santalert: Today is the last day of the rest of your BHT Christmas decision making process.  Fall off the fence if you’re on it and let me know if you landed on the ‘opt it’ side.  The elves are cogitating and trying to creatify a randomization name drawing process…so…let me know.  (Quite a poet eh?)

Ah Ha!

Psychoanalysts always say that, I learned it from Lucy VanPelt.

It’s Reactive Disambiguation Disorder with Reflexive Features. No cure, only suffering & coping.

Michael, define your use of “just”; do you mean like the last ten minutes, the last ten weeks, the last ten months or the last ten years?

Right after you answer I can diagnose you, the DSM-IV-R is within arm’s reach…

Cool, Santa’s finding messages in his inbox this morning.

Sharon, Clinical Supervision via case study is a regular part of my professional life. I find it to be the best skill building/growth experience there is; at least in my line of work…which is much like your line of work at least as regards working with people and their behaviours.

All, I’m including the following photo for no other reason than that I need to share it with others. My pragmatic excuse is that from my sharing somebody may learn a new technique for removing stubborn egg deposits from cooking utensils while camping.

Pirate, your response was, as usual, technically correct. My statement should have been “by not voting you marginalize yourself and others are very happy to join you in marginalizing you”.

Phillip, I believe that your assessment is indeed accurate. I worked for a guy a few years ago who was shallow, stupid and annoying. He led through intimidation, anger and a feigned charm which veiled deep narcissism – he was essentially a sociopath – a fellow co-worker confessed that this man had actually told my friend “if that happens again I’ll kill you”.

About six months after resigning I spoke to this former employer for a few minutes at Target. It occurred to me at that moment, and I told him, that suddenly I remembered what working for him reminded me of; being in high school. He understood it to be a compliment and I didn’t bother correcting him.

The so-called ‘blog wars’ we’ve been in remind me of the same; which makes sense as so many of the participants have not yet progressed from the academic life. Laurie and I have always been amazed at people we meet who are so in love with their ‘school days’ and treat their middle and high school aged children as if they were immersed in the ‘best years of their lives’. We both thought middle and high school sucked, which is a large reason we’re planning to home school. Our participation this year in Oklahoma! further solidified this assessment; which I wrote about here.

Brian, thank you.  I absolutely love my work, my clients and my coworkers.

To Mr. Challies’ credit, our use of the designated and beloved ‘jn’ to flag our sarcasm is not by any means universal.

Early helocopter pilots used to say that helo’s were not really aircraft, they were actually thousands of aircraft parts flying in close formation. BHT Fellows could be described in such a manner. Though we do not share a universal theology, we do share a universal disdain for, among many other things, the ‘new essentials’ that Michael mentioned.

Sharon: The only sports I ever cared about were the ones I participated in; bicycle racing, trap shooting, bi & triathlon…golf to some extent. I find many things (work for instance) more interesting and entertaining than television sports. This fact delights my wife…she deeply enjoys spending time with me…imagine that!

Brian, wouldn’t Iconoclastic Pastor-at-Large be a better moniker?

Talk about holy crap – it not only snowed but it stuck to the grassy areas.  Looks like at least three days of the stuff.  Earliest I ever remember living here.  I’ve been in snowstorms in July in Colorado, but that was at 13,000 feet…

It is snowing (outside of course).

There is an incredibly industrius group of folks from my hometown (minden, la) that has put together a very extensive website about the town and surrounding communities. It started out as a tribute to their graduating class of 1953. My brother Charlie Hennigan was in that class and so a lot of our family stuff got included. For those who are interested: A reunion of sibs and cousins and my story and if there are any old football buffs who care, this is my brother Charlie.

Nite to you all.

Hello everyone. Thanks for having me here. I have been lurking for a while and enjoying. I asked Michael if I could join the conversation and he said yes so here I am. If you want to know a little bit about me (ok, I actually wrote a lot), keep reading.

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Categories are the shizzle. (I learned that from Kurt.)

On my own site I’m so freakin’ category happy that I have no clue where to put things…in my mind every post deserves a new category.

JS: One of the things I’ve always admired about the Orthodox faith is it’s comfort with paradox.

I am Sharon and again, thank you for making me feel welcome. I’m honored to be numbered among the chosen. I am mom to three lovelies. Oldest son (21) is an aspiring rock star and goes to college as a hobby. Daughter (19) is waiting tables instead of going to school just so that her father and I will go completely crazy. Son (14) is another rock star wannabe and the only one that lives with us full time. Wonderful husband Bruce is a retired attorney. We moved from Baton Rouge, Louisiana back in 1998 so that I could attend seminary at Emory University in Atlanta. I finished the MDiv in 2001. I had been student pastoring for the three years I was in school and had the opportunity to stay in the North Georgia Conference. Bruce and the kids were glad to stay in Georgia rather than locating back to Louisiana. I am a Wesleyan through and through although not born and bred. This is what I wrote Michael in an email this evening:

I have been reading IMonk for about six months and have left a few comments here and there. I actually found you by googling “fire the youth pastor” back in January and found that great post about problem youth ministers. I’ve been hooked ever since. I am a United Methodist elder and I pastor a church in north Georgia. I didn’t grow up with the Methodists but I found a spiritual home with them about twelve years ago. Actually, they grew me up really fast. I answered my call to ministry, completed the MDiv (2001) student pastored all the while, finished all my probationary work and became ordained about two weeks ago.

Well, it is a great privilege to join a band of such high and low repute; I am not worthy.

As has been noted, I am a member of ECUSA a/k/a The Episcopal Church, where Phillip and I enjoy mystical, sweet communion. How did I get here? Well, I was cruising along in the late-90s as a cage-phase RB in Kentucky when I stumbled over the rock of offense of John Piper. It has been a slow but steady tumble into healthier thinking ever since.

I am a big-firm lawyer in Dallas. I am Chancellor of Trinity Episcopal Church. (If I was not sure what that meant until now, I suspect will learn in spades in the next two weeks.) As of last night, I am the founder of a new Anglican movement for the replacement of the traditional three-legged stool with a new one consisting of the bible, Driscoll, and Wright. As of sometime in the last month, I am a paedobaptist (for the second time, after twice being a credobaptist). I am a later Calvinist, i.e., like Calvin, I will get around to it eventually. Depending on the time of day, I am either too conservative or libertarian to be a Republican. I am 32 and as single as a $1 bill. I am originally from west-central Illinois. I spent some time enjoying the SBC conservative resurgence at SBTS in Louisville. My law degree is from the University of Michigan.

If I could be anybody, who would it be? Myself, only much, much better.

Well, I am ready for that tall Shiner now.

I think that this Raja guy is going to be a hoot! (welcome!) Is the ‘Blue’ thing a feeling or a color or have I missed a cultural reference somewhere?

MOD: You’re in rural Minnesota. How could you possibly miss a cultural reference? (jn)

My real name, though, is Sharad Yadav.  I’m an asthmatic East-Indian male who grew up in a household of nominal Hindus.  I was a nihilistic, argumentative, pseudo-intellectual glue eating athiest until around the Fall of 1994 (my senior year of High School), when a Mormon neighbor shared with me the Pearl of Great Price. I was introduced, at that time, to the Bible as well, and began reading it for refutational purposes.  I began to follow Jesus shortly thereafter, and started reading disparate books written from wildly different theological perspectives (Paul Tillich and Neil T. Anderson?) which I naively tried to redact together into some sensible cohesive whole, assuming that Christianity was more monolithic than it’s ever, in fact, been.  I attended Boise State University and pursued a bachelor’s degree in History (which is essentially a degree in boring cocktail party converstions), finally graduating in 1998. During this time I became involved in a church of faithful, loving believers who patiently discipled me through the boot-wearing, hair-exploding, Robert Smith looking phase of my life, and eventually sent me to seminary, even having me back to minister among them, where I currently serve as a full-time elder.  My personal interests include reading, writing, and the occasional non-LaHaye related computer game. Theologically I could probably be accurately labeled a mostly-Reformed conservative evangelical, though beyond the most basic credal framework I prefer to answer specific questions about what I believe (rather than be crammed into the theological midget-clown-car of hyper-specific Reformed confessionalism).  I’ve got a generous wife – Evelyne - and three wonderously quirky children: Madelyne - 5, Sameer – 2 (named after my identical twin brother), and Raj (1).   And I love pie.  Mmmmm.  Pie.

My experiences as follows in chronological order since I was saved:

Feeling God’s presence when I worship God.

Praying to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The result is 4-5 weeks later, I believe the Holy Spirit came upon me during a men’s bible study and I started to speak in tongues.

We had a guest Revivalist Evangelist come to our church. During and after the service, I had an eyewitness account of seeing people healed and filled with the Spirit and several individuals prophesy and spoke in tongues.

When the Brownsville Revival started on Father’s Day in 1995, members of my church and members of the Christian campus group got excited and went to Pensacola, Florida. They came back more excited about Jesus and wanted to bring what they experience down there up to Minnesota.

My church had the guest evangelistic come back a year later. After the service, I thought these Christians has gone wild. People where worshipping, prophesying, drunk in the Spirit, seeing healings, people were dancing.

Many of these individuals who went to the Brownsville Revival heard there was a revival going on in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I went with them. Got prayed for, got slain in the spirit several times, had a prophetic word spoke over me. Saw alot of the same things that my church experience in the last paragraph.

Went to Central Bible College. Nothing happen except I found my wife and got married. Began to understand Pentecostal and Charismatic doctrines.

We lived in Oklahoma after we got married, went to a Pentecostal church, saw someone get saved, then I saw the same person asked to received the Holy Spirit and then the same person spoke in tongues. All with 20 feet away.

I am sure I have more experiences to tell, but I don’t remember them and I am at work.

I am a Christian who is a husband and father.  The Lord Jesus Christ, before the world began, wrote me in the Book of Life, and at the appointed time in January 10th, 1993, the Lord saved me and begun to reveal Himself to me. On June 21st, 1993, the Lord spoke to my heart and said, “Come Follow Me.” From this point on, I have been following the Lord.

After I got saved, I grew up in Living Light Church in Winona, Minnesota from 1993-1997, 1999-2000.  Living Light is charismatic in experience that believes in the 5-fold ministries in Ephesians 4 and practices all spiritual gifts, but is baptist in its doctrine.  I went to bible college at Central Bible College in Springfield, Missouri.  Central is one of the main undergraduate colleges of the Assemblies of God denomination which is Pentecostal.  I went there from 1997-1998 and I met my wife there and left after one year. From 1998-1999, I lived in Durant, Oklahoma with my wife in her hometown.  We went to Victory Life Church in Durant.  This church is charismatic.  In 1999-2002, we moved back to Winona, we went to Living Light again and Faith Assemblies of God.  During this period, God began changing my heart towards the Reformed doctrine, we went to John Piper’s Bethelhem Baptist Church in Minneapolis a few times and began reading many of his sermons and books.  In the fall of 2002, we moved to College Station, Texas, where we had our first child and have been attending Living Hope Baptist church for 2 years.

The person who I found in Christianity as a model of my beliefs would be C. J. Mahaney.  He is example of man who can hold to the Reformed doctrines and yet be Charismatic in experience.  John Piper would be the second model.

You’re welcome Michael, and that may all be true (though you forgot to mention linking to an atheist website)...

...but at least I’m not unloving and humourless.

Yaa, I need ta get ta my car nooww an’ go ta toowwn nooww ta get ta work, yaa.

Jesse, such things happen to people when they leave Minnesota – repent for the end (of the continent) is near.

Jason, Eric, Michael, I hope this is the right way to respond. As I warned Michael, I am technically challenged. Thanks for the kind words.

Jason: Black and Tan is the way to go for me. I haven’t had the chance to try the Samuel Smith’s you mentioned. If I get a chance, I’ll let you know what I think.

Eric: I like Lutherans. Just had lunch with my Lutheran minister friend this week, but I’m afraid he is of the Evangelical Lutheran variety. Much of our conversation centered around his consternation over the Episcopalian path they are headed down.

Actually, I’m very happy to gain entry into the Tavern. I like the place a lot – like the way you folks think and interact.

About me: I have been married to my wife Lori for 18 years and have three trouble-making boys. I was born in 1962 in west TN into a devout Catholic family (my brother is a priest). As a child, I attended Catholic school, was very religious, and even had my own altar in my bedroom – complete with various holy cards and statues. But I got seriously off track through my adolescence. What C.S. Lewis said about these years was certainly true of me. He called adolescence “the dark ages in every life” – that time when “the most unideal senses and ambitions have been restlessly, even maniacally awake.” That was me.

As a freshman in college, I bumbled my way into “Sonrise” – an Evangelical bible study that was unlike anything I’d ever experienced. I heard the Gospel clearly articulated, and took to it like a duck to water. I had a dramatic, overnight conversion, and within two years (regrettably) was leading that bible study that I had found. I had became an Evangelical – and a preacher to boot! I walked alongside the Baptist for a while, the “lay witness” Methodist, the Bapticostals (Baptists-gone-bad), and straight up independent Charismatics.

Following a long and winding road, in 1997 I found myself planting a Vineyard Church in Little Rock, AR and stepping into the role of pastor. It took me many years to appreciate my Catholic upbringing and to recognize the value of liturgy and a sacramental view of reality. Much of my idealism has given way to pragmatism – but not all of it. I still dream of something better – something evangelical and sacramental, something relevant and rooted in the substance of the historical church. I’m still floundering, and still dreaming of something more – for me, my wife, my kids, and my friends. There is plenty more to tell but, believe it or not, I’m trying to keep this short. I look forward to getting to know many of you.

Oh, and by the way, I could care less for any nasty bottled beer, particularly the light variety. But if I find myself in the right kind of establishment, and they happen to have a nice, dark brew on tap…oh yeah, that’s what I’m talking about.